Couldn't agree more with you there.
There is no point posting figures on this forum as someone will try and know better - it is normally these people who know nothing.
Tuning Rolling Road......
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Tuning Rolling Road......
Couldn't agree more with you there.
There is no point posting figures on this forum as someone will try and know better - it is normally these people who know nothing.
Always a voice of reason(and there was more than one before I get moaned at
I'm not making snide comments, i'm just voicing my opinion - stating that i do not (and still do not) believe that a (rubbishy) K&N filter and exhaust can cause an 18bhp increase in power.. i don't understand why my doubting something calls for me to be insulted.
And that sounds aimed at me as well, which seems very unfair. I've not seen this rolling road, the only time i've been near it was when me and a friend wasted an entire day travelling down there only for some nincompoop in a garage on the same site tell us he's not going to do the work he agreed to do to the car and that it's not going on the RR either.
I don't think it's fair to insinuate that I know nothing just because I'm doubting something RedDot / GSR. I've never cared for calculated flywheel figures, only what is at the wheels. I don't understand why it's not shown on the results.
I'll believe it when I've see that engine strapped to a real dyno. Not some butchered drive-in fairground ride.
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but if the K&N filter is regarded as an item that'll loose the car power, and the backbox is good for what.. 5-8bhp? We're back with a car that has left the factory with what.. around 65bhp? I don't believe that either.
How much % loss is assumed when calculating the flywheel figure, what was the actual at the wheels figure, what was ambient temperature and pressure - they're all factors, and are all missing, and i'm being made out to be some kind of arsehole because i'm doubting the results are accurate.
How much % loss is assumed when calculating the flywheel figure, what was the actual at the wheels figure, what was ambient temperature and pressure - they're all factors, and are all missing, and i'm being made out to be some kind of arsehole because i'm doubting the results are accurate.
most of the rr i seen that set up ambient temperature and pressure do it wrong an end up with way more wrong results
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More power requires more fuel, more fuel = greater emmissions. Particularly on an mpi sei, that has to be strict with its CO2, I can't see then makin gmore than the stated power out of the factory, otherwise emissions would be well out.
I also can't belive that those two mod's equal that power increase.
I also can't belive that those two mod's equal that power increase.
How do you know that these have been the only modifications from standard?
Because I have seen it, I have seen it driving, I have seen it running up on the rollers and I know a few things about these engines.
Interesting results from the RR session.
As has been said, stock engine should produce 55bhp, measured at 72bhp. Now we all know manufacturers allow for some variation. In my industry a 10% variance would be considered quite large. But 30% increase is absolutely huge. This would point to two things, either unknown modifications, or an error in the readings. So I would try and contact previous owners of the car to determine if anything has been done to this engine.
If that shows nothing has been done, then write down 6 numbers from 1 to 49 and send them to me in a PM, I feel like doing the lottery and if you have a stock engine producing 30% more power then you are one lucky so and so
As has been said, stock engine should produce 55bhp, measured at 72bhp. Now we all know manufacturers allow for some variation. In my industry a 10% variance would be considered quite large. But 30% increase is absolutely huge. This would point to two things, either unknown modifications, or an error in the readings. So I would try and contact previous owners of the car to determine if anything has been done to this engine.
If that shows nothing has been done, then write down 6 numbers from 1 to 49 and send them to me in a PM, I feel like doing the lottery and if you have a stock engine producing 30% more power then you are one lucky so and so
havent we had this thread loads of times before
yes, because everytime a printout shows up from that RR - its missing the actual power at the wheels
yes, because everytime a printout shows up from that RR - its missing the actual power at the wheels
Torque is on the wheels and power on the wheels can be driectly calculated from the sheet from torque.
If people request the power figures on the wheel they can have it. But they don't.
Britain prides itself to be a free country - Red Dot is not going to change this. They give them the graphs on the wheels as requested.
yep your right mate but it is still interesting to see what R/R figures people get from what mods, but i also think it is good for debates and opinions This is what make this site so special and i have learn't alot from it so its a shame sometimes people tend to be a bit personal. (sorry going a bit off course here). Anyway i will hopefully be taking my 1242 to the R.R soon and once again we be having the same discussion again.
Mustard
fair enough.
Arc just to clear up my comments made in an earlier post were not directed at you at all - there are a few individuals (one in particular) who is always making biased judgements. Just because it is not 'what he chooses to do' - it is not right for anyone to do it whether it is the better approach or not.
In relation to the comments above I have R/R printouts (I also know Oldschool does) at home with a Power At Wheel figure from Red Dot which tally in with the standard rules in relation to PAF and PAW. So if you ask they can provide it - there is no smoke and mirrors.
They also do 'Alfa Romeo' days and the Alfa owners have nothing but positive remarks about how accurate the r/r is and the service at Red Dot. Every car from 1.6 TS to fire breathing 3 and a half litre jobs are spot on the money in terms of power & torque figures in comparison to factory figures and expected tuning gains.
Anyone who does not call them professional obviously has not been there. They were the only company to successfully map my Seicento 16v on the original ECU. Something co-incidentally that a so called 'mapping expert' such as Jayson at Chipped UK could not get close to getting right.
To sum it up they are a good bunch of guys.
In relation to the comments above I have R/R printouts (I also know Oldschool does) at home with a Power At Wheel figure from Red Dot which tally in with the standard rules in relation to PAF and PAW. So if you ask they can provide it - there is no smoke and mirrors.
They also do 'Alfa Romeo' days and the Alfa owners have nothing but positive remarks about how accurate the r/r is and the service at Red Dot. Every car from 1.6 TS to fire breathing 3 and a half litre jobs are spot on the money in terms of power & torque figures in comparison to factory figures and expected tuning gains.
Anyone who does not call them professional obviously has not been there. They were the only company to successfully map my Seicento 16v on the original ECU. Something co-incidentally that a so called 'mapping expert' such as Jayson at Chipped UK could not get close to getting right.
To sum it up they are a good bunch of guys.
Ah so you have checked the engine for other mods apart from the 2 listed, care to name them ?
Thanks
Ming
I believe the results but I don't believe that we know the whole story of that run &/or the car that did it.
& the OP says...
So what do you know about this engine? 72bhp, while more than possible from a 1108cc unit, on a stock engine with those mods imo isn't happening.
I think the real problem arises because lay people expect a RR figure from one guy in Essex (say) to be the same (same car) as some guy in Norfolk (say). It ain't gonna happen. Ever.
The RR is just a development tool, really, on which you can set stuff up, and measure any increase/decrease. Which is why I was keen to see the before figures for that engine.
RR days are mainly for fun, but canbe used seriously to do back to back stuff.
The RR is just a development tool, really, on which you can set stuff up, and measure any increase/decrease. Which is why I was keen to see the before figures for that engine.
RR days are mainly for fun, but canbe used seriously to do back to back stuff.
