Registered Driver

[Sarah500]

Ok so...

I was meant to collect my brand new fiat 500 on thursday after 10 weeks of waiting. So i went to sort my insurance got a not too bad quote for my age and area and it being a new car etc. However, i forgot that as i used my aunts car for scrappage the car would be registered in her name!

Rang the garage and they said that as long as i have proof of ownership then getting insurance shouldnt be a problem as it shall be put in my name as soon as the V5(? is that the right name?) form comes through to go and get it changed in my name but they advised to inform the insurance company of the issue. So rang the insurance company and they say no i have to be the registered owner, my response being i am the owner i have a reciept of purchase in my name but still nothin. So my new wee car is fully paid for and sitting in my dealerships forecourt ... rage!

Truth is i know very little about the ins and outs of insurance and was wondering if anyone knew what was exactly the law in regards to this? surely if someone buys a second hand car privetly then they wont be the registered owner until such times as they get round to changing the ownership over?

Any advice is greatly appreciated

 

[johnw]

You need to have "an insureable interest" in order to insure a car. Insureable interets comes from owning the car ie being the person who will lose money if the car is written off or stolen.

In this case to take advantage of the scrappage offer the car must be registered in your aunt's name. As soon as the V5 (ie the registration documents) arrive you can fill in the relevant parts to transfer ownership into your name. It becomes yours as soon as the form has been filled in and you should be able insure from that moment.

Is your aunt going to insure it all? If not you need to be aware the database the police use will show it as belonging to her but with no insurance in her name. That will probably trigger the ANPR (automatic number plate reader) in every police car you pass. The best bet is not to drive it until you have your insurance certificate in your hand and make sure you carry it in the car until the V5 comes back in your name. You will also need the transfer of ownership part of the V5 to prove the car has been sold to you by your aunt.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

You need to have "an insureable interest" in order to insure a car. Insureable interets comes from owning the car ie being the person who will lose money if the car is written off or stolen.

In this case to take advantage of the scrappage offer the car must be registered in your aunt's name. As soon as the V5 (ie the registration documents) arrive you can fill in the relevant parts to transfer ownership into your name. It becomes yours as soon as the form has been filled in and you should be able insure from that moment.

Is your aunt going to insure it all? If not you need to be aware the database the police use will show it as belonging to her but with no insurance in her name. That will probably trigger the ANPR (automatic number plate reader) in every police car you pass. The best bet is not to drive it until you have your insurance certificate in your hand and make sure you carry it in the car until the V5 comes back in your name. You will also need the transfer of ownership part of the V5 to prove the car has been sold to you by your aunt.

John, Dad's currently fully insured on a car thats in mums name (his gearbox went bang), V5 in mums name, only one insurance policy on the car and that is in dad's name.

There anything Illegal about this

Ultimatly he's insured against 3rd partys, and policy is fully comp, so car I'd have though is covered if the worst happens?

Jon.

 

[Eklipze3k]

What I'd be tempted to do in the meantime until you can change the car into your name, is to insure it in your aunts name through one of the companies that will proide short-term insurance policies (say for a month) and have yourself as a named driver. Then when the V5 comes through and everythings sorted, you can call up your insurance and get it sorted and close off the temp cover.

Just a thought.

@ MEP: Yes, I think that's illegal based on what John's said.

 

[johnw]

John, Dad's currently fully insured on a car thats in mums name (his gearbox went bang), V5 in mums name, only one insurance policy on the car and that is in dad's name.

I don't see how he got insurance for him only on a car he doesn't own. It is considered (in the family) to be his car but registered in mums name? If so, what did he tell the insurers about ownership?

Or is he driving it on DOC from his insurance on his own car? If so then the first problem I can see is that if he parks the car in town and goes shopping he could get back to find it has been seized as it won't show insurance in the name of the registered keeper.

 

[johnw]

What I'd be tempted to do in the meantime until you can change the car into your name, is to insure it in your aunts name through one of the companies that will proide short-term insurance policies (say for a month) and have yourself as a named driver.

That is a possibility but would have to have the OP listed as main driver - unless the aunt is actually going to drive more than the OP.

It is worth bearing in mind that - based on what the OP posted - it looks as if she and her aunt MAY have made a false declaration (ie that the aunt was taking advantage of the scrappage scheme to get herself a new car) when in fact it was wholly for the benefit of the OP. There is a criminal offence of obtaining financial advantage by deception.


If it was me I wouldn't do anything to arouse suspicion and would not touch the car until the V5 arrives in the aunts name. As soon as the V5 arrives they can fill it in for change of owner and put it back in the post. That is perfectly legal as the scrappage scheme didn't have any limit on how long you needed to keep the new car.

Once the V5 has been filled in and posted the OP is then the owner and can insure the car and drive it. The fact that issuing a new V5 and amending DVLA records will take a few days doesn't matter as the OP will have the "new owner" slip taken from the V5 as proof of ownership.

 

[dave]

when i buy a new car they say is it registered to you and i say it will be as soon as i the documents are sent off and they say that is fine

 

[Scrogg]

...However, i forgot that as i used my aunts car for scrappage the car would be registered in her name!...

In which case your dealership will need insurance that shows your Aunt is insured to drive the car in order for them to register it. They will not be able to register it with your insurance.

 

[johnw]

when i buy a new car they say is it registered to you and i say it will be as soon as i the documents are sent off and they say that is fine

Thats because you own the car (having bought it) which is what is required for you to insure it. The fact the DVLA won't know you own until they get the V5 is not important. The main reason the DVLA have to know who owns a car is to enable the goverment to make money from you by way of car tax, speeding tickets etc.

 

[johnw]

In which case your dealership will need insurance that shows your Aunt is insured to drive the car in order for them to register it. They will not be able to register it with your insurance.

Insurance is needed to tax a car but not to register it or to notify change of ownership.

 

[Hellcat]

I was always under the impression that the V5 names the registered 'keeper' - not the 'owner'.

That's why you should when selling a car produce a receipt for the purchase and transfer of ownership, plus fill in the green slip on the V5 to change the keeper. A V5 is not proof of ownership.

A park keeper does not own the park

 

[Scrogg]

Insurance is needed to tax a car but not to register it or to notify change of ownership.

Wrong!

Insurance, in the name of the person whom the car is to be registered to (or at least with that person named as a driver) is required to register a new car.

 

[Scrogg]

I was always under the impression that the V5 names the registered 'keeper' - not the 'owner'.

Officially that is the case, but most, although not all, insurance companies still insist on the car being registered to the policyholder.

My other half drives a Contract Hire car registered to the finance company and her insurers have no problem with that, so it's worth shopping around if your insurer refuses to cover you on a car registered to somebody else.

 

[johnw]

I was always under the impression that the V5 names the registered 'keeper' - not the 'owner'.

Thats right, although the two are usually the same person.

The important thing is not to get caught out as regards insurance. The moment the car becomes yours - which is when you hand over the cash to the previous owner - the vehicle MUST be insured in your name if you wish to park it on public property or drive it on a road or public place. We get lots of people in court who think that as long as they haven't sent off the V5 the car still belongs to the previous owner and can driven on DOC. It can't.

As i said before the main purpose of the V5 is to enable the government to find the person responsible for the car i order to take money from them.

 

[johnw]

Wrong!

Insurance, in the name of the person whom the car is to be registered to (or at least with that person named as a driver) is required to register a new car.

We have to disagree on this one.

My neighbour is a car sales manager and he tells me that insurance is not needed for registration. The majority of cars he registers do need insurance as they are to be driven away from the dealership.
On odd occasions he sells cars that are not going to be driven at once. He sells Mazdas and apparently a lot of MX5 are bought a presents and hidden in the garage until the birthday comes around. Others are directly exported from the UK. He tells me that those cars he registers without insurance. That makes sense to me as there is no need to provide proof of insurance when you send off a V5 when you buy a used car.

 

[johnw]

Officially that is the case, but most, although not all, insurance companies still insist on the car being registered to the policyholder.

My other half drives a Contract Hire car registered to the finance company and her insurers have no problem with that, so it's worth shopping around if your insurer refuses to cover you on a car registered to somebody else.

If you are buying a car via a finance company or using one on a contract hire basis you are (usually) responsible for replacing it if you wreck it. That gives you an insurable interest.

 

[Scrogg]

We have to disagree on this one.

You can disagree all you want, you're still wrong.

My neighbour is a car sales manager and he tells me that insurance is not needed for registration. The majority of cars he registers do need insurance as they are to be driven away from the dealership.

I've been in car sales for 12 years now, the last 15 months of which have been spent running a Sales Admin department that registers in excess of 2,000 new cars a year, and I'm telling you categorically that it is not possible to legally register a new car in the UK without insurance.

There are only two ways to register a new car. Either at a DVLA office using a V55 or using AFRL, the automated system that most dealerships now use. There is no way the bureaucrats at the DVLA are breaking the law for your neighbour, so the only way his company could be doing it is by putting bogus insurance details in to the relevant screen on AFRL (it will not let you leave it blank on any manufacturer system) which is going to costs them tens of thousands of pounds in fines when they get audited and found out.

On odd occasions he sells cars that are not going to be driven at once. He sells Mazdas and apparently a lot of MX5 are bought a presents and hidden in the garage until the birthday comes around.

I've lost count of the amount of new cars I've sold/been involved in the sale of over the years that were bought as birthday/Christmas presents for other people, and every single one needed insurance, either with the recipient of the gift as policyholder or as a named driver, before they could be registered.

Others are directly exported from the UK. He tells me that those cars he registers without insurance.

Most cars sold for export are not registered here first, and so don't need insurance.

That makes sense to me as there is no need to provide proof of insurance when you send off a V5 when you buy a used car.

Changing the keeper details on a used car and registering a new one are two completely different things. Go and try to tax a used car without insurance and see how far you get...

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I don't see how he got insurance for him only on a car he doesn't own. It is considered (in the family) to be his car but registered in mums name? If so, what did he tell the insurers about ownership?

Or is he driving it on DOC from his insurance on his own car? If so then the first problem I can see is that if he parks the car in town and goes shopping he could get back to find it has been seized as it won't show insurance in the name of the registered keeper.

Nope, V5 in mum's name, was SORN and on the drive not being used. Gearbox went on his Panda, he called insurance, said it was her car and not in his name and that she wasn't insured on it, and that he was planning on using it for the duration of his policy (until December) as the sole and only user. They said that was ok, So I assume its legal?

Wrong!

Insurance, in the name of the person whom the car is to be registered to (or at least with that person named as a driver) is required to register a new car.

No my friend you are wrong, dad insured on mums car, car in her name, insurance in his, and he taxed it

 

[Eklipze3k]

No my friend you are wrong, dad insured on mums car, car in her name, insurance in his, and he taxed it

He's referring specifically to registering a brand new car

 

[Scrogg]

No my friend you are wrong, dad insured on mums car, car in her name, insurance in his, and he taxed it

He's referring specifically to registering a brand new car

Yes, I am referring specifically to registering a brand new car.

When it comes to re-taxing a car at the Post Office it appears that the rules are slightly less stringent, in that as long as the car is insured by someone they will issue a new tax disc. In the case of your parents MEP it would seem that having the same surname and the correct registration number on the insurance document was enough to satisfy them. You'll probably also find that, like a lot of insurance policies, your dad's stipulates that his 'domestic partner' is also insured.