Technical Rear Wheel Camber

[Nedsly]

Just got a classic 500 and to my eye the rear wheels have too much camber. Also the care feels "squirrely" driving. Rear wheel toe increases with camber and would explain the car not tracking well. I am thinking I need shorter springs but how short? Has anyone delt with this? Thanks, Nedsly

 

[bugsymike]

Just got a classic 500 and to my eye the rear wheels have too much camber. Also the care feels "squirrely" driving. Rear wheel toe increases with camber and would explain the car not tracking well. I am thinking I need shorter springs but how short? Has anyone delt with this? Thanks, Nedsly

Just a thought and it is many years since I owned a classic 500, how does it sit and drive with two or three adults in the car? Many cars with older style independent rear suspension tend to "tuck in" (positive camber) when unladen. I remember when as a engineering college student I was looking at the back of a Hillman Imp and made the comment "bow legged" about the car, the lecturer turned to me and said "well you are no oil painting!" it turned out everyone else was looking at the girls coming from the hairdressing course.
Also are the tyres in good order?

 

[the hobbler]

Just a thought and it is many years since I owned a classic 500, how does it sit and drive with two or three adults in the car? Many cars with older style independent rear suspension tend to "tuck in" (positive camber) when unladen. I remember when as a engineering college student I was looking at the back of a Hillman Imp and made the comment "bow legged" about the car, the lecturer turned to me and said "well you are no oil painting!" it turned out everyone else was looking at the girls coming from the hairdressing course.
Also are the tyres in good order?

The 500 DOES have quite a lot of 'positive' camber at the rear when stationary or being driven 'light', and yes, it does strange in this age of 'negative'camber being the norm. If the car feels 'squirrely' check the tyre pressures---17psi front---26psi rear (light) to 29psi (fully laden).Rear wheel toe-in is 10min +15min/-10min (so between '0' and 25min TOE-IN)

 

[Nedsly]

The 500 DOES have quite a lot of 'positive' camber at the rear when stationary or being driven 'light', and yes, it does strange in this age of 'negative'camber being the norm. If the car feels 'squirrely' check the tyre pressures---17psi front---26psi rear (light) to 29psi (fully laden).Rear wheel toe-in is 10min +15min/-10min (so between '0' and 25min TOE-IN)

Thank you for your help. Problem checking toe is that the manual says to have the wheels 90' to the ground because the toe changes with suspension hight. I would have to fill the car with people to get it low enough. Even if that is correct when the people get out the excessive toe will return. I was hoping there were some different springs, maybe progressive ones and on average stiffer. Thanks, Ned

 

[the hobbler]

Thank you for your help. Problem checking toe is that the manual says to have the wheels 90' to the ground because the toe changes with suspension hight. I would have to fill the car with people to get it low enough. Even if that is correct when the people get out the excessive toe will return. I was hoping there were some different springs, maybe progressive ones and on average stiffer. Thanks, Ned

I CANNOT recommend that you fit stiffer springs on the back of a 500----if you do, the ride, when driven 'light' will become VERY 'skittish' (or as you put it---'squirrely'). If you can get the car laden (sand-bags?) enough to be able to check the toe-in at the rear, if it is correct when laden, it will only return to the 'within tolerances norm' when unladen. If you have no funny/uneven tyre wear at the rear, there is a fair chance that it IS within tolerances. To cure the 'squirrely' feeling, try slightly wider wheels (the standard wheels are only 3-1/2 ins wide) and have the tyre pressures correct.

 

[lazylobster]

My 500 drove like a bag of nails, once I had correct tyre pressures the car transformed!

 

[felixyuen1018]

its hard to believe 17PSI on the fronts are standard tire pressure. it barely fills up the tires.

 

[the hobbler]

its hard to believe 17PSI on the fronts are standard tire pressure. it barely fills up the tires.

I do assure you, that is the correct front tyre pressure. On my Abarth'695' replica I have 165 x 55 x 13 tyres all round (on 5-1/2 x13 wheels), and the front tyre pressures are 15psi---any more and the front wants to 'wander'!

 

[Bleeding Knuckles]

Hi Felix, I run with 30mm lower all round and 165/60 R12 Yokohama A539 my pressures are F 16 R 24 psi - no uneven wear. If the pressure is higher (at the front) I agree with Tom above the car will get a mind of it's own!!! I'm testing adjustable shockers when I can, but the car will want to swap ends if you attack a corner fast even with wider tyres.
Ian.

 

[Johnrambo18]

I used to have a 500 years ago. Because the rear suspension is on swinging arms, these move up and down in an arc, and inevitably change according to the load.

 

[heggae]

Good discussion about the tires. Does the 17 front pressure differ whether you have traditional bias ply. Vs radials. I could bet get myself to spend 300 $a tire to get wide white walls. So elected for a nice radial. About 100$ and then purchased portwall add on white walls.
I have been running higher pressure all the way around than the original recommendation and car seems to drive well

 

[bugsymike]

Good discussion about the tires. Does the 17 front pressure differ whether you have traditional bias ply. Vs radials. I could bet get myself to spend 300 $a tire to get wide white walls. So elected for a nice radial. About 100$ and then purchased portwall add on white walls.
I have been running higher pressure all the way around than the original recommendation and car seems to drive well

I trust that is Italian red in the glass.

 

[heggae]

Good discussion about the tires. Does the 17 front pressure differ whether you have traditional bias ply. Vs radials. I could bet get myself to spend 300 $a tire to get wide white walls. So elected for a nice radial. About 100$ and then purchased portwall add on white walls.
I have been running higher pressure all the way around than the original recommendation and car seems to drive well

Chianti Classico ! Good eye

 

[Goldnrust]

I also looked at those recommended tyre pressures and thought ‘no don’t be silly, that must be for old cross plies or something, I’ll put high 20s PSI all round in my modern tyres’ when I first got my 500 on the road…

And it was terribly twitchy. Moving to 16 front and 24 rear was a revelation, and I strongly suggest you try it before embarking on any more handling modifications.