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Technical Rear disc conversion

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Technical Rear disc conversion

If you want brackets made up ask A7R Jordan he did some for Arc which looked really well made, though Arc will be able to quantify this, i also got Arc some brakes lines made up at Earls Silverstone, single length from behind petrol tank to calliper, he told me they were spot on.

I did promise to buy a set off him i just haven't got round to it as wanted to get fronts done first on the Sei, but as he has made one set should have no worries making another set or two for those that want them.

PS you don't need a new handbrake cable you use the original one, just cut the loops off the end and leave the swagged bit as that now becomes the bit thats sits on the handbrake adjuster.

As for differences on the earlier and later front callipers, have a look through some recent thread on this which have pics. Older uses smaller pad, slightly smaller calliper, some including me had difficulties in bleeding these, also felt a little wooden at first, the later type has bigger pads and is easily identified by having a spring on the outside, amazing feel straight off, no problems bleeding.
 
Cheers Aaron,

I remember Arc's thread now...if they are the 240mm adapter, i'll contact A&R Jordan about a set...and Arc, to see if they were OK, sure they were.

That just requires me to source the calipers themselves :)

The query about the older and newer calipers was directed at the rear ones, I managed to source the newer ATE ones for the front (y)

If you wan't some brackets, maybe a bulk buy of two set would be cheaper?

I already have braided rears, and it seems a shame to junk them, but if needs must, how much roughly is a custom length braided line? PM if you like.

I guess if they no longer run through the rear arm bracket, at least when i change the rear bushes, it'll be easier, as i won't have to remove the lines (y)

Cheers for the tip on the handbrake cable....i read on another site you needed Punto GT cable, but wansn't convinced myself, and was going to give it a go without.....who needs a handbrake anyway lol


Kristian
 
You need the whole rears done though, as you can't have a solid pipe on a single piston sliding calliper, therefore your braided rears are not going to reach the calliper. So you have a choice, do what i did on my Cinq and get a flexi made to join current flexi to the callipers which looks neat as you can then use the retaining spring to hold the join in place at the bit that goes solid now, or junk the rear and go one piece as on Emma's and Arc's cars, there is no cost penalty on getting long pipes, I got Arc four custom pipes (front and rear) braided from Earls I think for £44 made on the spot for me to my specs.

The only reason I can for see that would men getting anew cable is the extra distance to get to the calliper, must be an extra 10mm or so I guess as the calliper sits further up as bigger disc? Remember I have only fitted Uno turbo rears same calliper but smaller mount.
 
rallycinq said:
Rear Brakes

Cinq front discs, Punto GT rear calipers, Small modification to handbrake cable, mounting brackets require fabricated.

Cheers

D
Click to expand...

RallyCinq - Not sure if you may have already covered this, but if you found it to be reasonable without the bias valve, what front setup had you got on @ the time?

I'd like to stick with my 13" speedlines if possible to maintain current the gearing.
 
Cento's already have a biased valve as standard otherwise the rear drums would lock up all the time as drums lock quicker than discs, its next to the master cylinder. Try driving a car like an old VW Beetle with drums all round, scary in wet cos they lock up sooooo easy, therefore biased valve is needed on rear.

This has been covered before.
 
If you put 14's on then the gearing doesn't have to be a LOT different.

Presuming you run 165/55 on 13's

195/45 on 14's is only 3.71% larger rolling radius

The stock sei arbarth (175/50) is 3.7%

I went for 185/50 which is 5.66% larger radius.

It certainly does handle different though, and seems like there is a bit more rolling resistance, but its nothing major.

Kristian
 
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Stock Abarth rims came with 175/50 14 rubber, not 55 profile. Most change to 185/50 as much bigger choice, but that's about it on a 5.5" wide rim.

6" rim, then 195/45 the preferred choice, I had Uniroyal RainSports in this size and must say the best tyre i tried on a Cinq by a long way, Conti Sports in 185/50 worked well, Dunlop Sport 2000 were poor, Yoko's not bad, but ware rate is v.high.
 
Right, I now have the calipers (y)

As per the front PGT calipers having two styles 94-97 and 97-99 and those calipers being available on a whole bunch of cars, not just PGT, the same is true from the rears, there are 3 versions though!

The rear calipers we are interested in, on the PGT had variations from 94-97 and 97-99.

There was also an old style that was also used on the 227mm discs, don't bother with this imho. It was used on the PGT up until 02/94 and many of the older Uno Turbo's etc. If the car listed in the below quote is pre 94, then it is probably used in a 227mm application. They still take the same pad though, and should fit, even with a 240mm disc, but will need a different mounting bracket . Getting new stock is VERY tricky and a recon may also be hard to get done, and with a caliper of that age, you'd be mad not to get recon'd...just not worth the risk/hassle!

The two older (227mm/240mm) style calipers take these pads:

DP596.jpg

The cars that take this pad are:

Code: 
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 145 / 1.4 (94-96)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 145 / 1.6 (94-96)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 145 / 1.7 16v (94-96)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 145 / 1.9 TD (94-96)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 146 / 1.4 (95-96)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 146 / 1.6 (95-96)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 146 / 1.7 16v (95-96)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 146 / 1.9 TD (95-96)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 155 / 1.8 TS (92-97)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 155 / 1.9 TD (92-97)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 155 / 2.0 TS (92-97)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 155 / 2.5 V6 (92-97)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 33 / 1.5 (ABS) (90-93)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 33 / 1.7 (90-93)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 33 / 1.7 16v (90-94)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 33 / 1.7 4WD (90-94)
ALFA ROMEO / GTV / 2.0 (95-96)
ALFA ROMEO / GTV / 2.0 Turbo (95-96)
ALFA ROMEO / GTV / 2.0 Turbo (95-97)
FIAT / Barchetta / 1.8 (95-99)
FIAT / Brava/Bravo / 2.0 (95-96)
FIAT / Coupe / 2.0 16v (95-96)
FIAT / Coupe / 2.0 16v (95-96)
FIAT / Marea / 1.8 (96-97)
FIAT / Marea / 2.0 (96-97)
FIAT / Marea / 2.4 TD (96-97)
FIAT / Marea Weekend / 1.8 (96-97)
FIAT / Marea Weekend / 2.0 (96-97)
FIAT / Marea Weekend / 2.4 TD (96-97)
FIAT / Punto / 1.4 Turbo (94-97)
FIAT / Punto / 1.6 (95-97)
FIAT / Punto / 1.7 TD (94-99)
FIAT / Tempra / 1.6 (ABS) (90-96)
FIAT / Tempra / 1.8 (ABS) (90-92)
FIAT / Tempra / 1.9 D (ABS) (90-96)
FIAT / Tempra / 1.9 TD (ABS) (90-96)
FIAT / Tempra / 2.0 (90-96)
FIAT / Tipo / 1.4 (ABS) (88-96)
FIAT / Tipo / 1.6 (ABS) (88-95)
FIAT / Tipo / 1.8 (88-95)
FIAT / Tipo / 1.8 16v (92-95)
FIAT / Tipo / 1.9 TD (ABS) (88-95)
FIAT / Tipo / 2.0  (88-96)
FIAT / Tipo / 2.0 16v (92-95)
FIAT / Uno / 1.1 Selecta (90-94)
FIAT / Uno / 1.3 Turbo (85-89)
FIAT / Uno / 1.4 Selecta (90-94)
FIAT / Uno / 1.4 Turbo (90-94)
LANCIA / Dedra / 1.6 (90-94)
LANCIA / Dedra / 1.6 (96-99)
LANCIA / Dedra / 1.8 (90-95)
LANCIA / Dedra / 1.8 (96-99)
LANCIA / Dedra / 1.9 TD (90-96)	
LANCIA / Dedra / 1.9 TD (96-99)
LANCIA / Dedra / 2.0 (90-94)
LANCIA / Dedra / 2.0 (96-99)
LANCIA / Delta / 1.6 (93-97)
LANCIA / Delta / 1.8 (94-97)
LANCIA / Delta / 1.9 TD (94-96)
LANCIA / Delta / 1.9 TD (95-96)
LANCIA / Delta / 1.9 TD (96-2000)
LANCIA / Delta / 2.0 (93-94)
LANCIA / Delta / 2.0 (94-95)
LANCIA / Delta / 2.0 (94-96)
LANCIA / Delta / 2.0 Turbo (93-96)
LANCIA / Y10 / 1.1 Turbo (85-89)

So it stands to reason, that all of these cars can be used for the rear calipers if you can source them. Best to check the cars listed take a 240mm 11mm disc. Ignore bolt hole numbers etc, your cento front discs will fit and have 4 holes.

These older style caliper are all the same variety, cast iron. There are no variations in caliper material, design etc. They are all also made originally by Girling. There may be a different style on some of the very early 227mm caliper designs, I haven't seen any, and its doubtful anyone else will, unless its a runner, as they have probably been cubed ;) I know a few people here run them though, so maybe they can confirm what they look like?

These style calipers looks like the following. The differences to note between the newer version are;

cast only
the pad design
the handbrake mechanism is kind of on the top
the "ribs" do not extend over the top of the caliper where you would look down and see the disc edge when fitted.

18501.jpg


The newer style of the PGT 97-99 take a different pad, and yes, you guessed it, these calipers are also found on a whole range of cars.

Here's the newer pad design that these calipers take;

DP1214.jpg

and here are two of the calipers;

22289.jpg 26501.jpg


Why, those two look exactly the same :confused: except the body of one is cast iron, and the other is alloy ;)

The alloy caliper are more expensive, lighter, less prone to piston corrosion and sticking, but as far as I can see, there are no set dates as too what car takes what, its hit and miss, but I'd recommend the alloy over the cast if you can source them.

Distinguishing features between these and the older style are;

the "ribs" run over the length of the caliper to aid cooling
they come in cast iron or alloy
they take the newer pad design
the handbrake mechanism has been "improved" and now sits on the end of the caliper, not on top

What your all wanting to know is what cars can i find these on? see below:

Code: 
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 145 / 1.4 (96-2001)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 145 / 1.6 (96-98)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 145 / 1.6 TS (97-2001)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 145 / 1.7 16v (96-98)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 145 / 1.8 TS (97-2001)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 145 / 1.9 TD (96-2001)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 145 / 2.0 (95-2001)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 146 / 1.4 (96-2001)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 146 / 1.6 (96-98)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 146 / 1.6 TS (97-2001)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 146 / 1.7 16v (96-98)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 146 / 1.8 TS (97-2001)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 146 / 1.9 TD (96-2001)
ALFA ROMEO / Alfa 146 / 2.0 (95-2001)
ALFA ROMEO / GTV / 2.0 (96-)
ALFA ROMEO / GTV / 2.0 Turbo (97-)
ALFA ROMEO / Spider / 2.0 TS (95-)
ALFA ROMEO / Spider / 2.0 Turbo (97-)
FIAT / Barchetta / 1.8 (99-)
FIAT / Brava/Bravo / 2.0 (97-2002)
FIAT / Coupe / 2.0 20v (96-2000)
FIAT / Marea / 1.8 (97-2000)
FIAT / Marea / 2.0 (97-2002)
FIAT / Marea / 2.4 TD (97-2000)
FIAT / Marea Weekend / 1.8 (97-2001)
FIAT / Marea Weekend / 2.0 (97-2001)
FIAT / Marea Weekend / 2.4 TD (97-2001)
FIAT / Punto / 1.4 Turbo (97-99)
FIAT / Punto / 1.6 (97-99)
FIAT / Punto / 1.7 TD (97-99)
FIAT / Punto / 1.7 TD (97-99)
LANCIA / Delta / 1.6 (97-2000)
LANCIA / Delta / 1.8 (97-2000)
LANCIA / Delta / 1.8 (97-99)
LANCIA / Delta / 1.8 LS (98-2000)
LANCIA / Delta / 2.0 (96-2000)
LANCIA / Delta / 2.0 (96-2000)
LANCIA / Delta / 2.0 Turbo (96-2000)

All these calipers take the 240mm disc, and as they are newer are less likly to need a recon, but as they are newer and on less cars, a bit harder to source.

Now, I've just covered the PGT and its style calipers, but don't think thats all you can fit. There are newer style pads discs and calipers, such as those on the panda 100hp and others, but i know very little about them, disc size etc. so don't want to comment ;)

It should be noted that ALL the calipers and discs I've talked about, will fit under 13" rims....unlike some options for up front which require 14"

Second hand costs for all these calipers are about £20-£40 each depending on the yard. "new" which are almost always recons, require the old calipers back, or you pay and additional surcharge of about £30..."new" calipers minus the surcharge are about £180-£260 depending which ones you get, add about another £60 if you don't have the old ones.


Any questions or errors just shout :) If this info is really useful, maybe it could be made sticky?

Cheers,

Kristian
 
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WORD OF CAUTION - Be really careful if you buy rear calipers over the phone without seeing them first as I ended up buying 2 sets of both non-matching calipers!!!

Either they were fitted by the factory that way (figure that's unlikely but I suppose anything is possible), replaced during the life of the car (most likely), or the scrapyards I ordered from were pulling a fast one. It is hard to be certain about things before seeing them when describing over the phone but supposedly the cars they came from were definately on the list of later donors.

One of the 2 wrong ones was an alloy caliper with almost the same body & ribs but a completely different handbrake arrangement that wouldn't match the PGT setup no matter how I looked at them? The other turned out to be the oldest style & cast iron but I got the pair really cheap.

Worst bit is that BOTH of the passengers side ones I had that were correct type model & material - sods law, so in the end I finally picked up a brand new drivers side that was listed (with picture) on ebay from "FIRST CHOICE ITALIAN CAR SPARES" quite cheaply.

Figure I'll try & trade the 3 I have left over for a discount @ www.biggred.co.uk but one IS a good condition (used) passenger side caliper of the later type & alloy material - if anyone wants it PM me.
 
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yeah, the list is all for rear disc conversion.

Smiler...apologies if the list isn't 100%, I went throught a lot of sites to compile it, and what i chose worked out for me, and i know at least a few others tie up...but it may have some errors hence your problem. I obviosly didn't check each one personally though.

Can you post a picture of what you ended up with, and what it was supposed to be off?

Cheers,

Kristian
 
If you end up with a combination of wrong pads for the hangers (had a pair of new hangers but they seem to be seized up & damaged) don't panick - you may be able to salvage things using a file...

Kritip - I'm not saying it is definately the list, could have been the scrapyard, or the fact that they'd been swapped during the life of the donor car. Seems like I was sent a mix of calipers in each pair.
 

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what thickness steel are people using for custom caliper mounts ??
10mm????
12mm??
14mm ??????
?????

cheers

aran.
 
I 'think' it needs to be 7mm. Which is not a normal stock sheet size. The ones I took off my donor are 7mm and i think this may explain why some people have had to fit washers. I'm sure that the thickness of the plate defines where the caliper sits. I have the bits in my workshop, just not the time to put them all together and see what difference the thickness makes. Once thats figured out I'll be lasering some in (i guess) 8mm
 
Did you ever get chance to check out how much more spacing spacers you think it needed to return things to the original offest on top of your 4mm spacers?
 
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