Technical Power steering
- Thread starter Woodbeck
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Technical Power steering
Nope
Not the EPS as far as ii know
There was a manual rack not that I have ever seen one
The steering is nicely speed proportional weighted in my opinion. That’s if everything is setup correctly and the car is on decent tyres. Feedback ? Is this for a race car
I also think the Panda's steering is nicely weighted as it is for spirited driving on country roads. I like that it doesn't have overly light assisted steering with little 'feel' of other city cars.
As I understand, the assistance reduces with speed, and offers little to no assistance above 40mph.
It's just a light car on skinny tyres, so the steering is always going to be light at speed. Decent tyres make a difference.
You could always pull the fuse out
As I understand, the assistance reduces with speed, and offers little to no assistance above 40mph.
It's just a light car on skinny tyres, so the steering is always going to be light at speed. Decent tyres make a difference.
You could always pull the fuse out
Don’t have enough to go on
Are you sure it not running too much toe out.
Worn suspension arm bush will cause all sorts of vagueness, wandering
Inner track rod ends although rare cause all sorts of weird feeling
I remember decades ago driving none power steering cars. When on ice or at the limit the steering use to tell you by going light. You don’t get this to the same degree with any power steering I have driven whether it’s hydraulic or electric
Are you sure it not running too much toe out.
Worn suspension arm bush will cause all sorts of vagueness, wandering
Inner track rod ends although rare cause all sorts of weird feeling
I remember decades ago driving none power steering cars. When on ice or at the limit the steering use to tell you by going light. You don’t get this to the same degree with any power steering I have driven whether it’s hydraulic or electric
Thanks for all your responses, I appreciate this is a matter of opinion influenced by experience and I do really like this car but my original comments still stand 'I find the steering over light and a bit dead'. To answer a few of the questions posed, this is not for competition (I gave that up years ago) but I do still have my moments of spirited driving. The car has a set set of matching quality tyres that have only covered 4000 miles. The front wheel alignment is perfect, after the local garage had several attempts without success I bought some tracking gauges, a couple of 3 meter straight edges, laser pointers and angle gauges and set it up myself, this has completely cured the uneven tyre wear on the car and it drives straight and true hands off the wheel, it also handles well given what it is. I don't expect it to be up to the same standard of more exotic cars I have owned or my current weekend toy but had thought a little less assistance might enhance the 'feel'. I will try pulling the fuse to see how that changes things but if as you say the assistance is zero after 40mph I am not hopeful. In spite of this I have no intention of changing the car.
The assistance is proportional with speed. The slower you go the more assistance you get.
pulling the fuse the steering is very heavy at low speed especially at T junctions and car parks.
In my tests there still a very small amount of assistance at 50 mph and you can just tell a difference if you put city mode on at this speed. although it written on the internet otherwiser
There’s virtually no self centring built into the geometry. It’s mostly done via the EPS you can make it track left, centre or right at will. By either software recalibrating the centre position or shorten one track rod end and lengthen the other
At one time I was jumping between an A class, splash and two Pandas.
Except for the lower grip from the Pandas 155 tyres fitted to my cars and extra body roll they pretty much feel the same at the steering wheel. Even the brakes are very similar and the only major difference is the clutch bite point.
pulling the fuse the steering is very heavy at low speed especially at T junctions and car parks.
In my tests there still a very small amount of assistance at 50 mph and you can just tell a difference if you put city mode on at this speed. although it written on the internet otherwiser
There’s virtually no self centring built into the geometry. It’s mostly done via the EPS you can make it track left, centre or right at will. By either software recalibrating the centre position or shorten one track rod end and lengthen the other
At one time I was jumping between an A class, splash and two Pandas.
Except for the lower grip from the Pandas 155 tyres fitted to my cars and extra body roll they pretty much feel the same at the steering wheel. Even the brakes are very similar and the only major difference is the clutch bite point.
Yep, just fit an old, worn out battery. You'll even get a nice red light to tell you it's in 'arm wrestler' mode.
Seriously, though, many modern cars with electrically assisted steering fell much the same. Folks used to hydraulic PAS often find them rather vague and lacking in feel.
It may be worth checking the front tracking; sometimes mistracking can result in a slight loss of directional stability.
If you want to test how the EPAS is affecting the feel, try driving with the PAS disabled ( but do be aware it'll be surprisingly heavy). As has been said already, this can be done by removing the appropriate fuse.
You could also try what I'll call the 'adaptive muscle memory technique'. Drive in city mode for a few days, until your reflexes adapt to it. When you turn it off, it'll feel much heavier and better controlled.
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I think your only option would be to fit the steering column from a Panda 100HP. As far as I know pressing your City button would then give you the heavier steering that pressing Sport does on that car. I have the opposite on my 100HP (long story), meaning when Sport is pressed I get light steering and the increased throttle response. It shouldn’t work, but as my commute is in West London it just makes the car feel really light on its feet.
The Delphi TRW system is used by a lot of manufactures and on a lot of models for decades. Millions of vehicles with few complaints for being over light.
This is normal for EPS it’s the way it works. Any feedback is absorbed by the big damper of the electric motor.
There could be something wrong with your car. Either you have to drive another panda, ka, 500 or similar to compare or someone drive yours
Sounds like somethings wrong.
If you mean vague I’d check the suspension arm rear bush. Very common.
There only a toe adjustment. How can they not succeed with several attempts. Unless something is worn in the suspension
Uneven tyre wear after a garage has set the toe several times. How have we fixed this.
Self centring is controlled via the electric motor and torque/angle sensor
It’s not zero at 40 but is negligible. Even pulling the fuse you will still have the motor acting as a damper
Personally if it is in-fact light and dead I would be looking elsewhere
A completely electric system will never give the same feedback as a mechanical system, hydraulic or electrical/hydraulic system.
Interesting comments, thanks. I don't think there are any problems with the car, I'll just lower my expectations a bit. To be fair the car does everything I ask it to and it's very cheap to run. Recently I've used it more frequently than normal due to the current price of petrol.
Cool
Out of curiosity which tyre are fitted
I preferred the ride and general comfort of the 155
But the taller side walls make it feel a little squishy for a better word.
Out of curiosity which tyre are fitted
I preferred the ride and general comfort of the 155
But the taller side walls make it feel a little squishy for a better word.
I swapped all 5 155 80 13 tyres for 175 70 13 at 12 miles old on mine.
This size even fits in the spare wheel well, but it will raise the boot carpet about 10mm.
I have now had this size on for 13 Years / 130 K miles.
The width of the tread on the ground goes up from 105 mm to 135 mm.
In my Diesel this cuts the understeer a lot.
Worth doing.
Thanks, Ailurus Lapis
This size even fits in the spare wheel well, but it will raise the boot carpet about 10mm.
I have now had this size on for 13 Years / 130 K miles.
The width of the tread on the ground goes up from 105 mm to 135 mm.
In my Diesel this cuts the understeer a lot.
Worth doing.
Thanks, Ailurus Lapis
Popitinpete
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Hi
Its become a sort of 'thing' nowadays that electric steering gives a sort of a 'dead' feel, most cars, unless expensive premium brands, will give this type of feel.
As for the light feel I would check the pressures too, usually 29psi front rears 26 psi. If the fronts are over inflated lowering them will put a bit more resistance back into the wheel.
The panda was built to spec as a city car in mind its never going to be a precise go kart inspired twisty B Road race car but set up correctly, (as you have done to yours, I had the same problem, the local tracking centre could not do it right so I did it myself) and light steering aside maybe (that you will get used to I'm sure) , it's a more than capable car.
The tyres are almost new but that could be a consideration when they need to be changed.
