What would be considered poor?
General Poor Fuel Economy GP 1.9 Sporting
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General Poor Fuel Economy GP 1.9 Sporting
What would be considered poor?
Just for reference
: Bought my 130 early August with 9300 on the clock. Drove it home (190 miles) at 80-90ish & got 46.1mpg - according to the computer. The one thing that did not impress me was the sluggish pull away from standstill - until the turbo kicked in. On the motorway it was a dream - quiet, refined & smoooooth. Anyway, I spent £264.00 on a tuning box from Dragon Performance. They claimed a lift to 157bhp & 10% better fuel economy (Snake Oil salesmans claims comes to mind....). After a real struggle to get at the Common Fuel Rail High Pressure sensor (It's at the rear of the engine & you need the hand size of a 3 year old to swap the plugs!!) it was on. What a hell of a difference it made to the low speed drivability! Turbo on demand at last, smoother acceleration & in the last 150 miles I have averaged 48-49mpg whilst using the acceleration. & I reckon the power is nearer 170bhp.
I was so impressed with a turbo-diesel (never had one before) that last week I bought an Alfa Brera 2.4JTDM, bought the 2.4JTDM flash chip from Dragon & transferred the box to the Alfa. Thats upped the Alfa from 200 to 230bhp & In the 300 miles I've done in that car I've averaged 38.3mpg...
Just my tuppence to try & help out.
And, sorry to say, my immaculate GPS 130 is in the FF Classifieds now I've got the Brera. ALL offers will be seriously considered guys & gals.
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I've read some of your posts with mild interest. For you to achieve only 39 mpg would suggest to me that:
a. Nobody should ever consider buying your car - it's been thrashed by a mechanically inconsiderate child.
b. You have not a clue how to drive a turbo-diesel quickly - use the revs in LOW gears. You can MAX this car yet still return at least 43mpg....
You pontificate a lot but seem to know very little. I'll bet that you have a 2000W amplifier, 12" Infinity speakers & no money left - & know very little about how your car actually operates. Mommy & Daddy bought it for you for promising not to spit at them - or suchlike....:bang:
you say it takes £37 to fill up your tank,at 93.9p per litre that works out to be 8.8 gallons,320 miles deivided by 8.8 = 36.2 mpg, about average for town driving,if you are enthusiastic thats quite good,be less enthusiastic and you will get more,
a) Don't buy it then, i'll part ex it.
b) Have you ever driven on a motorway in low gears? I think not
I have no amplifier or subwoofer. My Parents did not give me a penny towards this car, I worked hard and got a good career and subsequently have an excellent financial situation for a 19 year old.
I know very little? how is that tuning box going? Is your engine running so rich that your injectors are f*cked yet? Generic maps are excellent aren't they? I think it is your car that is not a good second hand buy
Oooooooohhhhh
For a 19 year old you claim to know so much. In fact, you know very little. A tuning box (fuel re-map) does exactly what it says on the tin. Today's car manufacturers have to comply with ridiculous NCAP fuel regulations. They have to fit all sorts of restrictors (Catalysts, Diesel Particulate Filters etc. etc.). They restrict the engine's power outputs to ensure that the UK Government shows their fuel consumption figures in the best light on paper. In the real world these figures are meaningless & can RARELY be achieved - because they are achieved on a rolling road by HM Government officials, who are not exactly known for fairness....
What the legitimate tuning companies do is to ignore the regulations (to which they do not have to comply with - as after-market tuners).
You, young man are full of "s**t". Angel Tuning, Red Dot, Dragon, Tunit etc. can give you a fuel re-map on a Turbo-Diesel giving you up to another 40BHP with INCREASED FUEL ECONOMY. And I can assure you that your engine reliability will be as before. Get a life & talk to the fairies - 19 & full of Poo - I ask you?
Oooooooohhhhh
For a 19 year old you claim to know so much. In fact, you know very little. A tuning box (fuel re-map) does exactly what it says on the tin. Today's car manufacturers have to comply with ridiculous NCAP fuel regulations. They have to fit all sorts of restrictors (Catalysts, Diesel Particulate Filters etc. etc.). They restrict the engine's power outputs to ensure that the UK Government shows their fuel consumption figures in the best light on paper. In the real world these figures are meaningless & can RARELY be achieved - because they are achieved on a rolling road by HM Government officials, who are not exactly known for fairness....
What the legitimate tuning companies do is to ignore the regulations (to which they do not have to comply with - as after-market tuners).
You, young man are full of "s**t". Angel Tuning, Red Dot, Dragon, Tunit etc. can give you a fuel re-map on a Turbo-Diesel giving you up to another 40BHP with INCREASED FUEL ECONOMY. And I can assure you that your engine reliability will be as before. Get a life & talk to the fairies - 19 & full of Poo - I ask you?
Tuning box - generic map, doesn't necessarily suit the needs of your car. I have a few friends with diesel cars, they used genric maps and some didn't last six months, i'm not making this up mike i've actually seen it happen, you claim this is your first experience of a diesel car. I suggest you heed the word of somebody who has ACTUAL experience in this. I've been working on cars since I can remember, I'm not a fresh out of halfords idiot. so don't treat me like one.
Live map - ie red dot, The map is looked at by a professional and tweaked to cater for your engine. Contrary to what you may thin, every engine is different. I suggest you get back on the internet and find some more b*ll**** you've obviously copied and pasted or read on some other forum.
You can assure me that engine reliability will be as it was before? Considering you have had your gps for less than a month I don't think you are in a position to comment on the long term engine effects of a 'tuning box'
Don't call me stupid Mike, I've already proved I know a hell of alot more than you. 19 and full of ****? 51 and full of himself.
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sharkrider
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I had to make a long journey on little fuel two days ago...... I managed 59.9 mpg on the motorway, but this (pic) is the highest I've every had, following tourist traffic on an a-road circa 40-50mph 6th gear..., just after I'd consider it run in... 9k miles, 1.9 spoting 15k miles angel remap. My average daily mpg, driving it how I enjoy it, is about 47 mpg....
lol now now children!
Why has no one mentioned the basic fuel savers:
Windows up
Aircon off
Tyre pressure up
Minimise power consumption, i.e. lights, stereo(especially with aftermarket amps), heated windows, heater e.t.c
Also did you know that if you change down a gear to make the engive rev up without touching the accelerator (i.e. engine braking) this consumes no fuel, so it is more efficient the coasting and using the brakes.
Why has no one mentioned the basic fuel savers:
Windows up
Aircon off
Tyre pressure up
Minimise power consumption, i.e. lights, stereo(especially with aftermarket amps), heated windows, heater e.t.c
Also did you know that if you change down a gear to make the engive rev up without touching the accelerator (i.e. engine braking) this consumes no fuel, so it is more efficient the coasting and using the brakes.
C'mon guys lets keep it friendly - no need for a slanging match.
Tommy - You are so correct
Yet people still won't understand that to utilize the economy of a diesel enginge requires a complete re-think from driving petrol. - Use lower gears in a diesel. Just look at your fuel computers to see the difference in mpg by changing down from 6th to 4th at 60mph!!! If you labour a diesel in a high gear it EATS fuel. All farmers know this.
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Can I throw in my 2p worth.
There are no such things as NCAP fuel regulations, NCAP is a safety organisation. Emissions are covered by European legislation, and to tamper with remapping, tuning boxes etc. is, strictly speaking, illegal without having the car re-certified. In practice, this legislation is not enforced at an individual level, although VOSA could catch you at a road side check if you have poor emissions.
Tuning boxes are completely different beasts to remaps. A remap alters the tables stored inside an engines ECU. These can improve power and driveability but usually at the expense of emissions. Manufacturer's spend hundreds of millions of pounds designing engines and mapping them to ensure compliance with emissions and ensuring long term reliabilty, do you really think a couple of guys with minimal equipment could do better without comprimising something?
Tuning boxes are, on the other hand, devices that fool / trick the fuelling system. They can do this in a number of ways but the usual trick is either to falsify sensor outputs (typically the MAF sensor) or to modify injection times just before the injectors. The ECU is ignorant of these tricks and so the consequence will be non-compliance with emissions (smoke). Also the economy reported by the ECU on a trip computer will be inaccurate as fuel being delivered will (unknown to the ECU) be in excess of that requested.
In general, you can't get massive amounts of power without using more fuel. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand that.
So what? I hear you ask.
Apart from the damage to the environment, and the fact that a large number of these modified cars have not notified their insurance, bear in mind that modifying your car in this way will invariably lead to stress on the engine and a massive increase in oil contamination, leading to "used up" oil well before the normal service interval. It will be interesting to see what happens to cars fitted with DPF's
I know personally of two cases where using a tuning box has directly lead to head warping on VW 1.9 pd engines after only a couple of years. Overheating is the first symptom.
I pity the happy buyer of a 2nd hand car that has had a tuning box fitted (and removed prior to sale). Its oil probably has been contaminated to the equivalent of 30,000 miles between changes, and the internal wear of the engine could very well be double that of a standard engine.
The easiest way to acheive good fuel economy is to adopt an ECO friendly driving style
http://www.shell.com/home/Framework...kg/fueleconomy_fuel_stretch_tips_ga_2203.html
There are no such things as NCAP fuel regulations, NCAP is a safety organisation. Emissions are covered by European legislation, and to tamper with remapping, tuning boxes etc. is, strictly speaking, illegal without having the car re-certified. In practice, this legislation is not enforced at an individual level, although VOSA could catch you at a road side check if you have poor emissions.
Tuning boxes are completely different beasts to remaps. A remap alters the tables stored inside an engines ECU. These can improve power and driveability but usually at the expense of emissions. Manufacturer's spend hundreds of millions of pounds designing engines and mapping them to ensure compliance with emissions and ensuring long term reliabilty, do you really think a couple of guys with minimal equipment could do better without comprimising something?
Tuning boxes are, on the other hand, devices that fool / trick the fuelling system. They can do this in a number of ways but the usual trick is either to falsify sensor outputs (typically the MAF sensor) or to modify injection times just before the injectors. The ECU is ignorant of these tricks and so the consequence will be non-compliance with emissions (smoke). Also the economy reported by the ECU on a trip computer will be inaccurate as fuel being delivered will (unknown to the ECU) be in excess of that requested.
In general, you can't get massive amounts of power without using more fuel. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand that.
So what? I hear you ask.
Apart from the damage to the environment, and the fact that a large number of these modified cars have not notified their insurance, bear in mind that modifying your car in this way will invariably lead to stress on the engine and a massive increase in oil contamination, leading to "used up" oil well before the normal service interval. It will be interesting to see what happens to cars fitted with DPF's
I know personally of two cases where using a tuning box has directly lead to head warping on VW 1.9 pd engines after only a couple of years. Overheating is the first symptom.
I pity the happy buyer of a 2nd hand car that has had a tuning box fitted (and removed prior to sale). Its oil probably has been contaminated to the equivalent of 30,000 miles between changes, and the internal wear of the engine could very well be double that of a standard engine.
The easiest way to acheive good fuel economy is to adopt an ECO friendly driving style
http://www.shell.com/home/Framework...kg/fueleconomy_fuel_stretch_tips_ga_2203.html
Absolute "B*****t". Current cars are mapped by the manufacturers to comply with NCAP EU4 emission ratings. The majority of 2006/07 cars are also fuel mapped to comply with forthcoming EU5 ratings.
As such, these cars are deliberately underfuelled by the manufacturer. I'm not a "Rocket Scientist" but from personal experience in the last month I can assure you that my engine performance gained a dramatic hike, but more importantly to me - my MPG was pleasantly raised.
Young man, get your facts right before you spout forth. The only way to do that is to buy & experience a "Tuning Box". Until then, other forum members should ignore your ignorant comments. Perhaps you would like to publically shoot down the likes of AutoDelta & Angel Tuning who supply these re-maps to Fiat & Alfa owners - to great acclaim?:devil:
Oh dear Mike is on his high horse again,
Mike, You are wrong, you have no clue about diesel tuning and your 'last month' of diesel car experience seems to consist of paragraphs of copied information from a tuning box sales website.
Tuning boxes f*ck your car, you can't seem to understand the difference between a tuning box and an ecu remap. Corsakid explained in perfect detail the differences and the effects. I've seen a diesel 'tuned' jtd last a few months before the injectors were completely knackered. Just shoving more fuel into the engine is no good for it.
You play on the fact you are older and know more, then you state that you have only had a month experience in diesel tuning? Well I'm not being funny but I knew more than you before I knew how to drive.
Mike nobody is disputing the fact that you have had a boost in power, because you undoubtedly have. But there is a difference and an obvious lack of knowledge in what you talk about.
I can't understand how somebody can think they are so right when they have been proven over and over to be so wrong! Mike you are completely and utterly laughable, you obviously have an image of some of us like most narrow minded older generation do.
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Ladies please calm down ffs.
Can we at least stay on topic and refrain from slanging matches Put your handbags away for the good of the forum!
Can we at least stay on topic and refrain from slanging matches
Put your handbags away for the good of the forum!NCAP has nothing to do with fuel.
So please don't jump to conclusions, or throw insults. Debate and discussion is a 2 way street. You can take my comments for what they are....just comments.
Despite my handle, my age (and hopefully my wisdom) is considerable and I own several cars. I am a design engineer with almost 40 years experience.
So please don't jump to conclusions, or throw insults. Debate and discussion is a 2 way street. You can take my comments for what they are....just comments.
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Ladies please calm down ffs.
Can we at least stay on topic and refrain from slanging matches
Darling dears, my handbag has been put away (albeit with a large house-brick in it). Interesting opinions possums but my P***Y (Cat) insists that I stick with my opinions. My P***Y (Cat) also says that I should desist acting like a dog - with it's nose constantly up other dog's "A***s". - So I'll take note & shut up:devil:
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GRANDE-STEVE
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Heres my 2 pence worth on the tunning situation,
the actual remap will do 0 damage to your car, however the increase in bhp may do in the long run, manufacturers often restrict theirs engines power to avoid the extra wear and tear on your gearbox, clutch big end ect. the grande punto motor is not designed to handle long term 170 + bhp ! the abarth model will have a modified clutch, gearbox and engine components to handle the extra power thus not having warranty repairs every other week.
the actual remap will do 0 damage to your car, however the increase in bhp may do in the long run, manufacturers often restrict theirs engines power to avoid the extra wear and tear on your gearbox, clutch big end ect. the grande punto motor is not designed to handle long term 170 + bhp ! the abarth model will have a modified clutch, gearbox and engine components to handle the extra power thus not having warranty repairs every other week.
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:yeahthat: Ear Ear lol! Its about choice though and each to hios own as long as it does not affect anyone elses safety and enjoyment.
Think you mean EOBD EU4
