Technical Panda multijet 1.3 sluggish and hesitant ongoing issue

[Dave169white]

Multijet 1.3 panda issues.

Im having some issues with my panda and was wondering if anyone can help.

The car started juddering and was hesitant about 8-10 months. Considerably worse at low revs. Most prominent at 1200/1500/1800rpm.

Above 2000rpm it ran fine and pulled well.

I changed the EGR valve for a new one 3/4 months ago. No difference. I looked at all the correction values on the injectors with Delphi. Cylinder 1 appearing to be the worst.

Can any body explain these injector values?


@ idle

C1 - 1.41mm3
C2 - 0.34mm3
C3 - minus 0.67mm3
C4 - 0.44mm3

@2000rpm

C1 - 2.8mm3
C2 - 0.00mm3
C3 - 0.00mm3
C4 - 0.00mm3

Rough, juddery, hesitant, mis- firing between 1000 and 2000rpm.

Fine above 2000rpm

****UPDATE****
Just put the laptop on it again, and cylinder no1 now has the injector from cylinder 2 in it.
The readings now are as follows.

@IDLE

C1 1.44mm2
C2 -0.18mm2
C3 -0.70mm2
C4 0.37mm2

@2000rpm

C1 2.9mm2
C2 0.0
C3 0.0
C4 0.0

As i have now had 3 different injectors in cylinder 1 all with very similar readings at idle and 2000rpm, does this point to a cracked cylinder, piston ring etc.


I gave up after swapping the injectors with the above fault and lived with the “mis-firing” and reduced mpgs.


But now i have noticed in the last few weeks its getting more and more sluggish the lower the revs.

Upon starting the car on Monday morning, it was absolutely as sick as pig, no power, wont rev. Dangerously slow.
No warning or dash lights. Just absolutely gutless.
Slightly better when warmer. However it will rev freely and is boosting above 3000rpm.

Ive had about a royal c**tfull of it now, so any suggestions on what to try next before i concede defeat and book it into a garage for diagnosing.

Thanks everyone in advance

 

[koalar]

Stop the engine from starting. Pull a main relay or similar

Crank the engine

Does it go

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer
Or
Weer weer weer weer weer

Or better still do a current draw test

If the latter a compression test would be the next step

 

[irc]

Multijet 1.3 panda issues.

Im having some issues with my panda and was wondering if anyone can help.

The car started juddering and was hesitant about 8-10 months. Considerably worse at low revs. Most prominent at 1200/1500/1800rpm.

Above 2000rpm it ran fine and pulled well.

I changed the EGR valve for a new one 3/4 months ago. No difference. I looked at all the correction values on the injectors with Delphi. Cylinder 1 appearing to be the worst.

Can any body explain these injector values?


@ idle

C1 - 1.41mm3
C2 - 0.34mm3
C3 - minus 0.67mm3
C4 - 0.44mm3

@2000rpm

C1 - 2.8mm3
C2 - 0.00mm3
C3 - 0.00mm3
C4 - 0.00mm3

Rough, juddery, hesitant, mis- firing between 1000 and 2000rpm.

Fine above 2000rpm

****UPDATE****
Just put the laptop on it again, and cylinder no1 now has the injector from cylinder 2 in it.
The readings now are as follows.

@IDLE

C1 1.44mm2
C2 -0.18mm2
C3 -0.70mm2
C4 0.37mm2

@2000rpm

C1 2.9mm2
C2 0.0
C3 0.0
C4 0.0

As i have now had 3 different injectors in cylinder 1 all with very similar readings at idle and 2000rpm, does this point to a cracked cylinder, piston ring etc.


I gave up after swapping the injectors with the above fault and lived with the “mis-firing” and reduced mpgs.


But now i have noticed in the last few weeks its getting more and more sluggish the lower the revs.

Upon starting the car on Monday morning, it was absolutely as sick as pig, no power, wont rev. Dangerously slow.
No warning or dash lights. Just absolutely gutless.
Slightly better when warmer. However it will rev freely and is boosting above 3000rpm.

Ive had about a royal c**tfull of it now, so any suggestions on what to try next before i concede defeat and book it into a garage for diagnosing.

Thanks everyone in advance

.

Stop the engine from starting. Pull a main relay or similar

Crank the engine

Does it go

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer
Or
Weer weer weer weer weer

Or better still do a current draw test

If the latter a compression test would be the next step

Going back to when the problem started, was it sudden, or did it follow some work being done (especially involving injectors)?
I have had a similar sounding problem with a Panda which had a "refurbished" injector fitted.
IMA was entered wrong and it ran like a dog....
Well, maybe a 3-legged dog. Garage was happy to let it go out like that, so it ended up on my doorstep.
(Although also worth mentioning that the supposedly refurbished injector wasn't much better than the one that came out. I put a known good secondhand one in, updated the IMA and it was much better.)

 

[Dave169white]

Stop the engine from starting. Pull a main relay or similar

Crank the engine

Does it go

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer
Or
Weer weer weer weer weer

Or better still do a current draw test

If the latter a compression test would be the next step

When you say current draw test, what item exactly are you testing for current draw?

 

[Dave169white]

.

Going back to when the problem started, was it sudden, or did it follow some work being done (especially involving injectors)?
I have had a similar sounding problem with a Panda which had a "refurbished" injector fitted.
IMA was entered wrong and it ran like a dog....
Well, maybe a 3-legged dog. Garage was happy to let it go out like that, so it ended up on my doorstep.
(Although also worth mentioning that the supposedly refurbished injector wasn't much better than the one that came out. I put a known good secondhand one in, updated the IMA and it was much better.)

It was parked up from july 2020 to October 2021. And was like it when i started using it again

 

[Dave169white]

Took the map sensor out
Took the crank sensor out
Fuel rail sensor

Checked them, cleaned them.

Car wont start

 

[koalar]

When you say current draw test, what item exactly are you testing for current draw?

 

[koalar]

Took the map sensor out
Took the crank sensor out
Fuel rail sensor

Checked them, cleaned them.

Car wont start

Don’t panic

Retrace your steps

Check around the MAF loose pipe

Is the low pressure fuel pump priming when you turn the key

Always better to take little steps it’s easier to backtrack if something goes wrong

 

[koalar]

Is it turning over really fast

They will not start if they can’t produce enough pressure from the HP pump.

Jump start to test

 

[Dave169white]

**Update**

Collected the car from the garage it has been at for 5 weeks plus, as they couldnt find the fault.

Although they assured me both fuel pumps are fine and the cam and crank timing is correct on diagnostic check. And they have changed the crank sensor .

Car starts. Turn it off. Wont restart.

Drove it 4/5 miles, chucked some fuel in and drove towards home, car stalled on me. Wouldnt start but would bump.

Drove home. Called a friend, drove to his house and plugged in the delphi.

P0335 not present when it did start. Present when it didnt. Shot round to the nearest motor factors at 5.15 and got a crank sensor. Fitted it and it has now started 15-20 times trouble free so far, (fingers crossed). This was after spending several hours testing sensors with the multimeter.

So the car is now back to a point where it starts and runs. However it is still as sick as a pig wont rev easily, struggle to acheive 30/40mph.

Im severly frustrated at how long the so say experts at the garage took to achieve nothing and on the same hand pleased it now starts.
But i still need to get to the bottom of it being grossly underpowered, unresponsive and sluggish!!

Any suggestions?!!

 

[Dave169white]

Is it turning over really fast

They will not start if they can’t produce enough pressure from the HP pump.

Jump start to test

Fuel pressure 292kpa on tickover.
140000kpa when revving flat out

 

[Dave169white]

Don’t panic

Retrace your steps

Check around the MAF loose pipe

Is the low pressure fuel pump priming when you turn the key

Always better to take little steps it’s easier to backtrack if something goes wrong

Re reading this made me think logically as to when it stopped starting. After i had taken a few sensors out, so thanks!!

Low pressure pump runs and primes

 

[Dave169white]

.

Going back to when the problem started, was it sudden, or did it follow some work being done (especially involving injectors)?
I have had a similar sounding problem with a Panda which had a "refurbished" injector fitted.
IMA was entered wrong and it ran like a dog....
Well, maybe a 3-legged dog. Garage was happy to let it go out like that, so it ended up on my doorstep.
(Although also worth mentioning that the supposedly refurbished injector wasn't much better than the one that came out. I put a known good secondhand one in, updated the IMA and it was much better.)

And yes it started a few weeks after swapping an injector. For a “refurbed” known good one.

 

[A3jeroen]

Did you reset the ECU by disconnecting the battery for say half an hour?

gr J

 

[Dave169white]

Did you reset the ECU by disconnecting the battery for say half an hour?

gr J

Yeah it made no difference

 

[Dave169white]

Managed to get a other hour on the car today with the delphi plugged in.

Something i noticed was air mass measured.
The car was at idle and i was getting the following:

Air mass measured 242mg/injection
Target air mass 166mg/injection

Would this suggest MAF fault?

I still have no codes to work with

 

[Cinq999]

And yes it started a few weeks after swapping an injector. For a “refurbed” known good one.

Was the injector coded in?
I have swapped injectors before, and they needed coding in before they ran right.

If you unplug the MAF sensor, and it runs better, that normally points to the sensor being the issue, maybe worth a try.

 

[mobilecentric]

Was the injector coded in?
I have swapped injectors before, and they needed coding in before they ran right.

If you unplug the MAF sensor, and it runs better, that normally points to the sensor being the issue, maybe worth a try.

Yes , I have the same issue , engine hesitation at around 2000 rpm (and all normal above it), I unplugged the MAF sensor and all works fine , no hesitation. I have tried cleaning the MAF sensor with a MAF sensor cleaner, but it did not help. What else can I do before I put in money for a new MAF sensor.

 

[Cinq999]

Yes , I have the same issue , engine hesitation at around 2000 rpm (and all normal above it), I unplugged the MAF sensor and all works fine , no hesitation. I have tried cleaning the MAF sensor with a MAF sensor cleaner, but it did not help. What else can I do before I put in money for a new MAF sensor.

If cleaning it didn't work.....then I'd suggest a new MAF.

Don't buy a cheap one.....I went through 3 cheap MAF's off ebay, and they all packed up within a few weeks.

Bought a Bosch MAF, which had now lasted over 2 years without problem.