General Panda gets 0* in Euro NCAP!

[The Panda Nut]

Cearly the disparity between the original tests and the current is odd to say the least.

Am I bothered. No. I have reviewed the video of the crash tests and consider the car stood up well to the impacts involved. It looks no worse than any other small car.

The 4x4 is slightly higher off the ground and would resist a side impacet marginally better than a 4x2 version.

I do not need want or require in anyway any more electronic driver aids. These things are only good if they work, and its also very clear that they dont do so at all times and as the car gets older they are even more likely to be less than 100% reliable.

My son drives very expensive german cars that have this guff fitted and I have witnessed the lane departure system in action and am not even slightly impressed. His current car is a Mercedes. This had a major electronics failure at 9 months old resulting in the car self applying its brakes....

The only problem with my Pandas lane departure system is the old fart driving it!

I do rank safety highly when purchasing, but consider that the changes in the tests do not help me select a new car any more. While I will note the rating, I will make my own mind up by viewing the videos of the crash tests.

If I had my way we would tax the German auto market out of the UK. When they stop fitting obscenely bright lights that have recently caused me to have to stop the car using emergency braking I will possibly change my mind. This is a case of the tests following German manufacturers a little to closely - again.

Germany should note that we are not all as green as we may be lemon looking!

I enjoy having a small nimble light car that is cheap to buy and run. I do not want to pay BOSCH for more electronics thankyou.

The result of this will be buying a Japanese or far eastern product as there are no home grown alternatives should indeed I need to change car again at all.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Interesting, as I was looking for a parking spot and thought I could squeeze in here. OK, it was 4 manoeuvres (reverse-forward-reverse-forward) but we got in without anyone guiding. What's not to like?

Its a crime. You should be locked up.

Doing such manoeuvres without a reversing camera and surround sound. Tut tut.

 

[oyumurtaci]

I do not need want or require in anyway any more electronic driver aids. These things are only good if they work, and its also very clear that they dont do so at all times and as the car gets older they are even more likely to be less than 100% reliable.

When they stop fitting obscenely bright lights that have recently caused me to have to stop the car using emergency braking I will possibly change my mind.

The new Jimny city braking has displayed a calibration error where, if taking a turn in the outside lane with metal barriers (basically all mountain roads), the system panics and emergency brakes for a moment, then releases, then brakes again. On a wet road, it would probably send the poor thing right into the barriers it was supposedly trying to avoid.

As for the recent trend of super bright lights, it's actually not the brightness that's causing the issue but again, the calibration of automakers and their 'automatic' headlights that extend the beams (raise the lighting angle) until it 'senses' oncoming traffic and dips them to an acceptable level. It's pretty similar to the inconsiderate pricks who drive around with high beams on until they see someone coming from the opposite direction and wait until the last moment to switch them off (or sometimes don't bother at all). These systems are especially bad in their operation with cars lacking the same technology and with approaching cars from behind, because they rely on sensing the light coming from the other vehicle. Since the brake lights aren't as bright, and since most cars don't yet have this system, the sensors aren't triggered until the car is within the range of the headlights or brake lights of the other vehicle. In the meantime, the car with the auto lights has been blinding the other drivers for the entirety of the period their long range lights have been on.

 

[gar074]

The only problem with my Pandas lane departure system is the old fart driving it!

Love this. Same here!

 

[The Panda Nut]

The new Jimny city braking has displayed a calibration error where, if taking a turn in the outside lane with metal barriers (basically all mountain roads), the system panics and emergency brakes for a moment, then releases, then brakes again. On a wet road, it would probably send the poor thing right into the barriers it was supposedly trying to avoid.

As for the recent trend of super bright lights, it's actually not the brightness that's causing the issue but again, the calibration of automakers and their 'automatic' headlights that extend the beams (raise the lighting angle) until it 'senses' oncoming traffic and dips them to an acceptable level. It's pretty similar to the inconsiderate pricks who drive around with high beams on until they see someone coming from the opposite direction and wait until the last moment to switch them off (or sometimes don't bother at all). These systems are especially bad in their operation with cars lacking the same technology and with approaching cars from behind, because they rely on sensing the light coming from the other vehicle. Since the brake lights aren't as bright, and since most cars don't yet have this system, the sensors aren't triggered until the car is within the range of the headlights or brake lights of the other vehicle. In the meantime, the car with the auto lights has been blinding the other drivers for the entirety of the period their long range lights have been on.

Ah. Thanks for the explanation.

Its time our spineless government banned some of this stuff from our roads. It really makes you wonder what we elect them for collectively they are useless - even if some are putting up a decent show locally! I shall write to my MP and ask him if he can raise the issue in the right place.

 

[oyumurtaci]

Ah. Thanks for the explanation.

Its time our spineless government banned some of this stuff from our roads. It really makes you wonder what we elect them for collectively they are useless - even if some are putting up a decent show locally! I shall write to my MP and ask him if he can raise the issue in the right place.

These lights make sense on German split roads where the barrier between directions blocks these lights but I find it odd that the UK hasn't legislated them into the ground considering the relatively strict rules on light height and LHD light blockers at MOT. Even the Americans inadvertently banned them with their archaic DOT and NHTS laws, which also disallow laser and LED matrix headlights.

 

[murphyv310]

Hi.
I didn't know that the US has banned these LED types of lights. I think it's actually fair enough as at least everyone is on a level playing field. When H4 lamps were established and the norm we didn't have the problem we have now with getting dazzled by a large percentage of vehicles, with SUV types being dreadfully bad.

 

[oyumurtaci]

Hi.
I didn't know that the US has banned these LED types of lights. I think it's actually fair enough as at least everyone is on a level playing field. When H4 lamps were established and the norm we didn't have the problem we have now with getting dazzled by a large percentage of vehicles, with SUV types being dreadfully bad.

Due to the wording of their transportation laws, single element LEDs are permitted while multiple elements aren't allowed. That's why most LED matrix setups are banned while a few that use phosphorous layers or mirror arrays are allowed since there is still technically a single light source.

 

[James2300]

I find it amazing that the Panda gets an N.Cap score of 4 and suddenly, because N.Cap have decided that they don't like the seatbelt warnings and the car doesn't have collision mitigation (which is well known to be unreliable) they have reduced the score to zero. This all smacks of sensationalism and, who the hell do N.Cap think they are to demand specific additions to any car? Fine if the price is unlimited but the Panda is an economy compact vehicle.
If N.Cap get away with this dictating bullying, no average person will be able to afford to buy a vehicle.
The issue here is driving standards need to be improved, and not rely on technology to minimise safe driver involvement.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

I find it amazing that the Panda gets an N.Cap score of 4 and suddenly, because N.Cap have decided that they don't like the seatbelt warnings and the car doesn't have collision mitigation (which is well known to be unreliable) they have reduced the score to zero. ...

As mentioned before, read here: https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-ne...-ar183668.html for a balanced response. The bar has been raised for all the parts of the test - notably new, more 'realistic' dummies. Most cars that previously had higher star ratings would get many fewer now. But few car makers, other than Fiat, are still selling the same car now as they were in 2011. Some, such as the Fiesta, have seen three or four replacements in that time.
But yes, better drivers and better enforcement of the rules or common sense would help considerably.

 

[muttleysdad]

All the fancy electronics ONLY drive down the already appalling standard of driving. Point 2 illustrates this
2 Before I retired I was an Accident Investigator specialising in RTA's especially motorcycle. Some years ago (when even ABS was a rarity) I had occasion to question a Volvo driver (a witness to an accident) and during the course of our conversation he said "Of course I can't hit anything I have ABS,on my car." I wont repeat the rest of the conversation but he was adamant that ABS prevented him hitting anything however he drove. He would not accept any explanation of what ABS actually did, and presumably drove like a moron ever after. All the while we have idiots like this on the road,we will always have stupid people causing accidents however loaded with electronics their vehicles are.

I think Colin's story only reinforces a little thought I've had going round in My brain for a while now.
First I'll say that driver aids are great and I applaud every new one.

The growing problem in my mind is people don't understand them and think if their car has them they're invincible.
I drive a lot and when I come across an accident, these days more often than not, the cars involved are usually big modern sports saloons. I get the feeling that the drivers think with all the aids and gizmos on board that nothing can happen to them. They drive closer and faster even when the road conditions are bad.

One case in point the other day, the weather was wet, I was on a dual carriageway and it was obvious (to me anyway) that someone in front was leaking Diesel pretty bad. You could see the rainbow sheen on the road, smell it, and my windscreen wipers were smearing the spray all over the windcreen.

I slowed down and let my distance to the car in front pull right out but the number of big saloon cars that came barrelling down the outside lane at speeds in excess of 80mph was unbelievable, and a lot of them driving nose to tail.
We couldn't work out whether they were oblivious to the issue or just thought they were perfectly safe. It was frightening and my partner made me get off the dual carriageway and take the back lanes.

We did phone the diesel issue through to the Police but I don't know if they did anything.

I did hear later that the road was closed due to an accident later in the day however.

 

[SB1500]

In my last email they told me they’d be testing more cars from the class in 2019. Wonder if they’ll tell us if the VW is included...

 

[SB1500]

 

[AB100]

View attachment 196499

They appear to have removed the last sentence, which I imagine read:

"This will allow VW to shift all of their current stock before doing a light refresh and adding some electronics ready to meet NCAP 4 (when they say so), the inevitable price-hike for which will fund another smug advertising campaign with driving through an empty city and whatnot.".

Perhaps they just do things alphabetically.

 

[jrkitching]

One case in point the other day, the weather was wet, I was on a dual carriageway and it was obvious (to me anyway) that someone in front was leaking Diesel pretty bad. You could see the rainbow sheen on the road, smell it, and my windscreen wipers were smearing the spray all over the windcreen.

Unbelieveable. If you're a motorcyclist, that's instant death.

Have a look at this.

 

[R1NGA]

Unbelieveable. If you're a motorcyclist, that's instant death.

Have a look at this.

I was there when Jorund had his accident and we used to ride together often - lovely chap and one of the most talented around. But you just can't tell what the surface around the next corner will bring....

This nicely proves that despite all the advances in technology, you simply cannot entirely predict grip levels accurately all the time and autonomous braking systems have no idea how much grip will be available when the time comes for some of that AEB magic. I've seen demos that work perfectly as well as those that haven't - and the latter are the ones where the AEB modules with hindsight, probably wishes it had kicked into life just a little bit earlier....

 

[The Panda Nut]

Well just bought another panda. This ones 3 stars plus 1 fir the CBC system so I'm completely safe. I shall accordingly drive like an Audi driver from now on.

I am satisfied that the risk is no greater than any other small car. I have added CBC as I am getting slower to react in older age and it might just pay off. I am however VERY nervous about this system and hope I don't end up disconnecting it. For the time being I am going to try for an insurance price reduction as it apparently reduced rear ending accidents by about 30%

I am more concerned that it keeps its oil dry. I cannot find anything else I want to own and drive more than a Panda. Sad old man.....

"They say money cannot buy happiness. But have you ever seen a sad person driving a Fiat Panda" Must remember to wear this t shirt when I collect the new Panda, whenever that might be.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Just saw this.

The movement inside the car and the neck movement scares me to be honest. But does any car in this city car class do any better?

I saw a Volvo S90, apparently the best performing car ever tested, not look too impressive with the side crash test (obviously it did better than the Panda, but still a broken shoulder surely). My view is if another car hits you from the side at even 40mph you’ll probably wish you were dead to be honest - in any car.

And also, what I tell myself about my current Panda, is that if you were in a luxury Range Rover - huge car - and got driven into by an articulated lorry at speed you’d stand just as little a chance.

I am a bit disappointed that Fiat doesn’t seem to care. And as always , concerned that the German brands are behind this shaming of anything else that threatens them. Particularly as the Panda is a much better seller in mainland Europe than here in the U.K.

Though maybe it’ll force them to make the necessary improvements to their cars and reputation properly.

Trust me, nobody I know in person would consider driving a Panda due to how it looks. I get ridiculed all the time not just for driving one, but for enjoying it! And even more for saying I want to buy the new model! So this is more than a nail in the coffin I think for the Panda in the UK market. Sadly.

All Fiat has to do now is artificially ramp up its prices and cite Br***t and it’ll have truly lost the Uk market. And me for Japanese rivals.

To me, nothing else is quite as appealing as a Panda for my next car. I like that I can get a 4 year old one for £3,800 should I have to. I like how it drives. But the safety aspect has always been a hard one to ignore.

Look forward to more people putting their opinions into this.

Tried the Suzuki Ignis recently and was disappointed. It felt under powered and unexciting after Panda. 55mpg on test was good but no 4wd available so who knows what that might actually achieve.

What about all those people whom drive classic and vintage cars. If yoiu are hit by something large its going to hurt whatever. Drive defensively and with care and hope that this is sufficient to keep out of trouble.

I would personally rather have effective headlights than CBC or lane departure systems!

 

[James2300]

The bit in the Thatcham research commentary video on the result where the supposedly independent guy says 'don't buy a Panda, buy a second-hand Ibiza' is a bit depressing. An Ibiza is a much bigger car anyway, it's hardly a fair comparison.

Buy a Seat? With the recent VAG reliability and emissions issues? That would sure be a good choice......

 

[James2300]

They haven't done a pole test for some reason?

I know where I would like to stick that pole...up NCAP'S ----