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Technical Panda Cross Update

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Technical Panda Cross Update

OK.. On my VW Transporter Syncro (the propper one with the engine in the back:D), this has a VC, these offer quite a bit of resistance, with a single wheel off the ground its just poss to turn the wheel, approx 60ftlbs torque.. if the panda system allows a wheel to spin freely then there is some other interaction going on.. if the axle is off the ground then yes, both wheels will spin easily but in opposite directions... or if I were to get opposite corners off the ground then they will spin as the vc transmits the power front to back.. but my syncro has diff locks (vac operated physical locking) front and rear.. so getting stuck like that is short lived...:D:D:D
 
I got the same "4x4 mode not available" message appearing on Friday evening.
To start with it was intermittent, sometimes switching the engine off & restarting cured the problem (well 3 or 4 times).:confused:
I did some "experimentation" this afternoon on a muddy field (my own) and the rear wheels are not driving, the fronts were sliding all over the place while the rear just followed on.
So be aware on snow & ice if you get the 4x4 warning light come on you'll only have 2wd.
 
No news from me cos i haven't booked my car in, it's still being repaired after its bump.
I will try to grill the dealers as to how the 4x4 system actually operates when it does go in. Unfortunately, you only normally get to talk to the lasses on reception and we all know how little these lasses know about the oily bits of cars!
(He ducks and runs off before someone like Emma throws something heavy at him).;)
 
Check Google for details of Haldex 4x4 or AWD systems -- it does indeed look as if the 'baked bean can sized units' could be clutch actuators from a system of that sort (where messages from the ABS system activate solenoids to couple the rear drive... and on some Saabs, provide the side-to-side diff lock function too). But if that's the case, why do Fiat still say its a mechanical system with a viscose (sic) coupling?

[added later] The Cross has ESP too? I've mentioned in the past that this would defeat a viscous coupling (and so was not available on the 4x4 Climbing version), as a front wheel has to spin to activate the viscous coupling. But if the 4x4 is engaged electronically, ESP system can still be allowed to take control where needed, as this text from the Haldex website explains:

Immediate deactivation [of 4x4 system] on ESP signal to ensure full function of the ESP system. An alternative is to communicate with the ESP system to add the control possibility of the Haldex LSC to the ESP system.

From: http://www.haldex.com/en-GB/Europe/...ries/AWD/Product-information/Control-Samples/
 
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I doubt the "workshop" will actually know either........

I should think it ought to be pushed through head office as a technical issue... not having 4wd available on a 4wd car that youve paid good money for is an issue and it seems its a common problem on the cross....

I doubt the "baked bean"! sized "cans" are anything more than the CV joint, just a different design.. prob to account for the wheel travel and lenghtening and shortening of the drive shaft as the suspension goes through its range of travel (although I havent seen under one so thats speculation...
 
To help Toomanytoys, but at the risk of upsetting AlanD, who came close to buying a Cross earlier in the year, this is a link to a photo he took under a Cross, where the 'bean cans' can be seen further towards the front of the rear diff housing than the CV joints on the drive shafts. The 'normal' 4x4 doesn't have these, as the second link shows:
https://www.fiatforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48142&d=1217868726
and
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-new/155712-panda-4-4-turbo-its-here-8.html?p=1665115
Pete
 
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stephenbeetleman said:
Any news .... ?
Click to expand...

Fiat garage still waiting for replacement electropneumatic valve.

Doctorchris, here is a photo of Manchester - see its not like everyone thinks.

Mike O.
 

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Herts Hillhopper said:
To help Toomanytoys, but at the risk of upsetting AlanD, who came close to buying a Cross earlier in the year, this is a link to a photo he took under a Cross, where the 'bean cans' can be seen further towards the front of the rear diff housing than the CV joints on the drive shafts. The 'normal' 4x4 doesn't have these, as the second link shows:
https://www.fiatforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48142&d=1217868726
and
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-new/155712-panda-4-4-turbo-its-here-8.html?p=1665115
Pete
Click to expand...

Mmmm... on the "normal" 4x4 from that pic it looks like thats the front mounts for the diff.. so would I be wrong to assume the cross has stronger/fluid filled mounts?? only a single rear mount on the diff so I am gonna put my neck out and say they are not diff lock related..;)
 
My Cross went to the garage yesterday and had its ECUs read....
The fault is detected by the ABS ECU, but doesn't show in any other ECU error logs, & the fault is present (if they canceled it & restarted the car the fault came back). It is the electro-pneumatic valve on the rear diff, or a wiring fault to it.
The valve is the baked bean sized can on the passenger side of the diff casing.
This was the first cross the technician had seen, so he's going to read the manual between now & when the valve arrives to understand more about it. It does seem that the valve actually connects & controls the drive to the rear diff, so that when it does not work you only have 2wd.
The garage also checked the factory bulletins, there are no outstanding issues with the system & more interestingly the current build for ALL 4x4 pandas is to use this rear diff arrangement (not the viscous coupling).

Neil.
 
Panda Cross fixed, it took nearly 3 weeks but a new rear bumper was needed and so the delay was supply of parts, as per the 100HP.
Now booked in to Benfield Fiat in Newcastle who I've found trustworthy in the past. Oddly, they no longer sell Fiats but can still carry out repairs and warranty work.
Thanks for all the posts here on the 4x4 system fault. It gives me plenty of information to pass on to the garage.
Even if we get more snow, I'm reluctant to challenge the car until the 4x4 fault is fixed as I would not be sure of its capabilities.
 
I only had one for a day and the same fault cropped up, so it is definitely a "common" fault. I was also put off going through an enormous pond after the fault displayed, you never know if the 4x4 is working or not. Hope it gets fixed soon, we're still waiting for some pictures too! How did the bumper get damaged?
 
A bus bumped into the rear of the car in the city centre. I have to be honest and admit I had wound him up by pushing out in front of him from a parking layby so I take some responsibility.
The repair was done well and the paint finish is, if anything, better than original.
As for pictures, well here in the extreme North we barely see daylight for long enough, it's raining again and I'm working full-time decorating the new kitchen that my wife had installed, her side of the deal where I got a new car, know what I mean? She still drives around in her 2003 Honda Jazz, so fair enough.
 
I see, kitchen keeps the Mrs happy and makes you feel less guilty for buying yourself a new car, i like it. Honda Jazz is a good car also, there's a new model out now, looks a lot fresher. Don't worry about pictures for now, I'm sure we'll see some in the near future. Pleased with the Cross then? (ignoring the obvious fault)
 
I'm thoroughly pleased with the Cross as it has the power to keep up with the traffic without constant changes of gear and superhuman anticipation of road conditions that the Climbing called for.
However, it's taller and on narrower tyres so doesn't corner in the almost mental way that the Climbing did (or could if it had some power).
However, the Climbing is still in my garage as the trade-in offered was not good. I'm sorely tempted to keep it, the excuse being my son might need a car soon. One day it will be a minor classic.
 
You compare it to the Climbing and i compared it to the MJ so our opinions are different i suppose. I was used to the power and lightness of the MJ so the Cross seemed slower to me, yet handling felt better due to better suspension etc. I'm still tempted as ever though, i couldn't stop grinning off road! I also like the rugged looks, has much more presence on and off the road than the standard Panda. Do you get many heads turning when you drive it? They are certainly different
 
You know, in Sunderland the only motors that turn heads are Scoobies with the full WRX workover.
That doesn't bother me. I know that I'm driving a proper off-roader that only cost me around £9000, new.
I really want to get out to Weardale when the snow comes and 4x4 is fixed. Weardale is like rural Wales but with less people (honestly) and I should know as I lived in Aberystwyth and drove all over mid-Wales for 3 years in the early 1980's, ie before the Welsh discovered gritters!
The Cross off-road? Well, when I had a big off-roader, Ford Maverick (the Nissan Terrano 2 based car, not the weak Mazda based one) I went seriously off-road in Weardale and watched an original Panda 4x4 do anything that the Landies could do. I have confidence that the Cross could follow. Narrow track would be its strong point, it wouldn't bog down in the Landies' ruts.
 
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