General Panda 100hp Performance

[DraigFlag87]

It's also around a second quicker, is it not? the 100hp that is. I drove a 500 1.4, didn't do much for me, no kick or pull like you get in the MJ but to be fair it only had 11 miles on it when i took it for a spin! Haven't driven a 100hp yet, want to though, it's one of the only Panda's i haven't. I've done the MJ, the 1.2 and a Cross but not a 100hp, am i missing much?

 

[trackdayqueen]

It's also around a second quicker, is it not? the 100hp that is. I drove a 500 1.4, didn't do much for me, no kick or pull like you get in the MJ but to be fair it only had 11 miles on it when i took it for a spin! Haven't driven a 100hp yet, want to though, it's one of the only Panda's i haven't. I've done the MJ, the 1.2 and a Cross but not a 100hp, am i missing much?

Well having owned both, the power delivery on a 100hp is perhaps unsurprisingly nothing like the MJ. Obviously being petrol and non-turbo you don't get all the lag you get with the MJ. Its usefully quicker too with a much sharper throttle response plus it obviously revs higher.

It doesn't have the roly poly handling of the MJ either, suspension is stiff though on the 100hp, but it doesn't roll that much.

So I would say if you want something that is fun, then yes you are missing a lot. I know it sounds harsh and i'm not meaning to offend but I found the MJ no fun at all. The MJ put me off diesels for life I think.

 

[HP]

No, 500 is not VVT. It is a standard 16v FIRE engine. Same capacity, same CR, same quoted output at same rpms....

John

Fiat begs to differ:

 

[trackdayqueen]

Fiat begs to differ:

Yep I noticed that. Thing is though if the compression ratio is indeed different Fiat would have had to fit different pistons and the difference is so slight you'd have to wonder if it was really worth the hassle. I do wonder if those tech specs are correct in all honesty.

 

[HP]

Finally had use of a 2007 ePER. The 500 does not have variable valve timing, just shows you shouldn't trust some sources....

According to my parts cross referencing between a 1.4 500 and a Panda HP, they share:

Inlet and exhaust cams
Pistons
Crankshaft
Cylinder head and head gasket
Valves


They differ with:

Conrods
Intake manifold
Throttle body

 

[naaathaaan]

By the way, On EVO ( link in post #2) is this somebodys 100HP on the forum, Dont know if this has already been said, But there is the FIATForum.com sticker in the window

either way

good advertising

 

[naaathaaan]

also, funny how in the attatchment in Post #23 the 100HP actually has 99.....whilst the 500 actually has 100....hmmmm

 

[Stu DemonD]

By the way, On EVO ( link in post #2) is this somebodys 100HP on the forum, Dont know if this has already been said, But there is the FIATForum.com sticker in the window

Yeah, that is my car, being driven by one of the reporters

It was after they paid for the Cobra spring upgrade, and were doing a roadtest.

 

[Petoz]

Yeah, that is my car, being driven by one of the reporters

It was after they paid for the Cobra spring upgrade, and were doing a roadtest.

There are smiley faces in your wheels!

 

[laverda]

Hi Stu
How do you feel the Copra spring upgrade ? , what type are they and did they lower the car and if how much

 

[Stu DemonD]

Hi Stu
How do you feel the Copra spring upgrade ? , what type are they and did they lower the car and if how much

Hi

All information relating to that was in this thread:
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-new/147708-i-spy-my-little-eye-evo-cobra-suspension.html

 

[trackdayqueen]

With regard to the suspension, I really think the answer lies in a retro-fitted rear ARB which will allow softer springs without sacrificing roll control.

 

[babbo umbro]

As someone remarked a week or two back, it's got to be worth comparing the Panda/500 rear end with the new Ka (ghastly little blob) with its softer springs and rear anti-roll bar - could just be that half the work's already been done.

 

[DraigFlag87]

As someone remarked a week or two back, it's got to be worth comparing the Panda/500 rear end with the new Ka (ghastly little blob) with its softer springs and rear anti-roll bar - could just be that half the work's already been done.

The new Ka shares many components with the 500/Panda does it not? It has identical indicator stalks amongst other things and it's made in the same polish factory, Ford looking to cut back on production costs too. I like it when a big name in the motor industry gets desperate, they always turn to Fiat for help!

 

[ScoobyChris]

The new Ka shares many components with the 500/Panda does it not? It has identical indicator stalks amongst other things and it's made in the same polish factory, Ford looking to cut back on production costs too. I like it when a big name in the motor industry gets desperate, they always turn to Fiat for help!

I read a review of the new Ka and they were saying despite Ford's suspension tweaks it still drives like a Fiat, just not as well. Shame as the old Ka had a brilliant suspension set up and I was hoping the new one would continue in its footsteps and would be easily retrofittable to sort out the Panda....

Chris

 

[John R Smith]

Thanks very much for all your helpful replies. After analysing all the data, I have to conclude that the only substantive difference between the setups in the two cars would be the ECU and the way it is mapped. Which means that FIAT, for some reason best known to itself, is telling porkies about the power outputs. You can't get around simple physics - a one second better time to 60 m/h on a car with much the same weight equals about 10 hp difference at a nominal 100 hp level. So either the Panda should be called the Panda 110hp, or the 500 figure is actually about 90 hp. Is there some tax-band advantage in Italy to being below 100?

John

 

[ThisBitterPill]

After analysing all the data, I have to conclude that the only substantive difference between the setups in the two cars would be the ECU and the way it is mapped.

I thought it had been established that there were several differences which I think HP pointed out (Conrods, Intake manifold, Throttle body)

You can't get around simple physics - a one second better time to 60 m/h on a car with much the same weight equals about 10 hp difference at a nominal 100 hp level.

Your 'simple physics' theory falls down when you take gearing, grip, throttle input etc into account....

 

[babbo umbro]

The figure in the Italian road test shows 108.7 cv (cavalli = horses) at 6190 rpm so there seems to be something in this suggestion. There are restrictions on newly qualified drivers in Italy - for car drivers there's a limit of 100 Km/h on the autostrada and 90 km/h on main roads for the first three years (can't see any Italian taking any notice of that). There was also supposed to be a restriction introduced for those getting a licence after 1 July this year, that meant new drivers couldn't drive a vehicle with an unladen power/weight ration higher than 50 Kw (I reckon that's about 65 HP) per ton but from what I can gather that's been suspended - wouldn't apply to 100HP anyway. Don't know of any tax implications.

On the other hand, it's quite a useful wheeze to keep the insurance rating of the 100HP reasonable - so perhaps we should keep quiet about it.

 

[Stu DemonD]

The figure in the Italian road test shows 108.7 cv (cavalli = horses) at 6190 rpm so there seems to be something in this suggestion.

Yet when I posted up a RR graph showing standard 107.6HP at just over 6000rpm [looks like 6080], it was instantly dismissed?!

 

[valencia100hp]

Yet when I posted up a RR graph showing standard 107.6HP at just over 6000rpm [looks like 6080], it was instantly dismissed?!

I have a Spanish road test of the 500 1.4 and their measurements show a max power output of 105.5 HP at 6360 rpm! Torque is 14.4 MKG at 4220 rpm so it is quite in line with the italian figures. They measured the 100hp a few months ago but I can't find the test anywhere

The 0-100 for the 500 was 10.68 seconds and the 0-1000m was 32.96 so both are still 1 second off the 100hp. The measure weight was 1058kg which is 100 more than the manufacturer's figures but the test car had 16" wheels, skydome and other extras.

I would agree the ECU mapping is different, especial in sport mode, the 100HP dose have lower gear ratios and better standard tyres so a little of each could be the reason.