Technical 100hp Panda - Inlet Manifold Bolt Removal

[thornebt]

My zero compression on one cylinder has resulted in me having to remove the cylinder head. It's been quite straightforward so far but I am now stuck!

I've been following the procedure in the Haynes manual (for 16v Punto) and have got to the stage of removing the inlet manifold. I've removed five of the eight bolts but the three lower central ones are a problem. Photo from Haynes manual attached.

I can't see these bolts but I can certainly touch one of the outer ones with a tip of my finger. It seems impossible to get a spanner or socket on these bolts and turn them. There's just not enough room to move a spanner or socket wrench in there! I searched this forum and there is mention of a mirror on a stick, 1/4" socket bars and scraped knuckles.

What I really need to know is how someone who has done this job actually managed it.

 

[koalar]

Are you sure you need to bother

Will the cylinder head and inlet not come away together

The engine mount needs to come of to remove the timing belt

You can drop the engine a fair way for extra clearance

Although I haven't tried this on the 100 hp it works on the most other engines I have done

 

[thornebt]

Thanks Koalar. I was following the procedure in the Haynes manual but am now out for a long walk during which it occurred to me that I could possibly remove the head with the inlet manifold still attached.

I now need to find a splined tool for the cylinder head bolts. Haynes say that they used a close fitting Allen key but I would like to get the correct item. Couldn't find one on eBay so may try my local Fiat dealer. Haynes said they are not expensive but we will see!

 

[thornebt]

The problem with removing the cylinder head with the inlet manifold still attached is that one of the bolts access hole in the cylinder head extension is covered by a plastic bracket which is part of the inlet manifold.

My potential way round this problem is to cut through it and then repair it later by glueing a thick bit of plastic on top with epoxy resin. I know that might cause some tutting and raised eyebrows but I'm not sure the bracket is that important and if I make a neat job of the repair it will look ok and be nearly as strong as new.

The car might not even make it back onto the road, depending on what I find when the head is removed and availability of parts I might need.

 

[koalar]

The problem with removing the cylinder head with the inlet manifold still attached is that one of the bolts access hole in the cylinder head extension is covered by a plastic bracket which is part of the inlet manifold.

My potential way round this problem is to cut through it and then repair it later by glueing a thick bit of plastic on top with epoxy resin. I know that might cause some tutting and raised eyebrows but I'm not sure the bracket is that important and if I make a neat job of the repair it will look ok and be nearly as strong as new.

The car might not even make it back onto the road, depending on what I find when the head is removed and availability of parts I might need.

Dam, same it's in the way

Bolts are Ribe you can buy a set such as the laser ones for around £10 just make sure they are long enough

If you want to buy an individual one, unfortunately I don't know the size, different fiat engines have different sizes and the information on the internet isn't reliable, in fact on here I can see it listed under two different sizes

 

[thornebt]

I'd not heard of Ribe fixings before. I must be out of date with these things. Rather than follow the Haynes Manual suggestion of using a close fitting Allen key on the head bolts I bought a set of Ribe keys on eBay M5 - M14 for a tenner. A 6mm Allen key did fit but not as snugly as I would have liked and it's the last bolt you want to screw up!

You would have thought that the Haynes workshop would have Ribe keys but maybe they're a bit out of date like me!

 

[Yolanda]

Ribe ? Never heard of them before, they look like torx to me but their obviously not.
Is that a can of worms I can hear being opened.

 

[thornebt]

Ribe ? Never heard of them before, they look like torx to me but their obviously not.
Is that a can of worms I can hear being opened.

You can see from the upended Ribe bit in the centre that they're quite different from torx bits. I can see why Haynes said that an Allen key should do the job but I wasn't going to risk it on a head bolt. This set cost a tenner from eBay with freepost so very inexpensive.

 

[koalar]

Ribe ? Never heard of them before, they look like torx to me but their obviously not.
Is that a can of worms I can hear being opened.

Not really

There's dozens of different systems in use such as triple square

But I normally only see three

Fiat generally use Ribe
VW and Audi generally use polydive
And more generic parts are torx

There's a bit of leeway if your desperate, especially in countries where supplies are difficult

It always better if you can to use the correct bit as it reduces the chance of slipping or splitting the head, and here in the UK their readily available

 

[thornebt]

I used my set of Ribe bits to remove the ten cylinder head extension bolts (Ribe M8). I loosened two of the cylinder head bolts (Ribe M9) but the Ribe bit fractured on the third bolt as they were extremely tight! So I've bought a replacement bit and the eBay description says it will be Draper, Sealey or Franklin (not heard of the last one). So the job is again on hold awaiting the bit.

When I removed the cylinder head extension I found a broken inlet valve spring. I don't know if the valve will be bent but I guess the head will be fine and the car is looking very fixable at a small cost. It's just a fiddly job getting it all apart and back together. This would have been an incredibly easy job on my first car (Triumph Spitfire) but space is tight and I have hands covered in scrapes and small cuts!

Anyway, for anyone with a 100hp Panda you might want to record somewhere that you need Ribe M8 and M9 for cylinder head removal.