Technical Panda 1.2 dynamic valve cover

[somyunguy]

Hi guys, this thing is driving me batty , bought another Panda 2007 model ,1.2 dynamic. High mileage but solid , all the usual suspects , control arm bushings etc. And oil leaks.
So I go to the local Fiat stealership in need of a tappet cover gasket , which , blow me down, they actually have 5 in stock!
So i get one , today , I pull the cover only to discover , that in addition to the gasket with it's built in "O" ring , there are 4 others in the underside of the Tappet Cover , which of course , were not included or even mentioned when I bought from aforementioned source.

Now here's the big issue , looking for said "O" rings on line yields nothing except aftermarket gaskets complete in some cases with said "O" rings , however , looking through ePer , by Vin # , none of the engines depicted appear to show any sign of said "O" rings , which are fitted on the underside of the TC cover at the interchange between the internal oil gallery and the camshaft main journals.

One was missing when I pulled the cover off and the gasket had been reused at some point with some type of sealer, which shouldnt be , but then it's clear some "ham fisted" sod has been doing "Maintenance" - if one could call it that.
I used an "O"ring from a Honda motorcycle to replace the missing one in the meantime (looks like a rubber collar , usually fitted under the barrels at the oil feed studs) , trimmed it by about 3mm and should do the business - better than nowt, the way i see it!

As can be imagined , at 210000 kilos , these are a tad hard and flat and it troubles me not to be able to replace them with new kit! Any ideas??

 

[koalar]

Hi guys, this thing is driving me batty , bought another Panda 2007 model ,1.2 dynamic. High mileage but solid , all the usual suspects , control arm bushings etc. And oil leaks.
So I go to the local Fiat stealership in need of a tappet cover gasket , which , blow me down, they actually have 5 in stock!
So i get one , today , I pull the cover only to discover , that in addition to the gasket with it's built in "O" ring , there are 4 others in the underside of the Tappet Cover , which of course , were not included or even mentioned when I bought from aforementioned source.

Now here's the big issue , looking for said "O" rings on line yields nothing except aftermarket gaskets complete in some cases with said "O" rings , however , looking through ePer , by Vin # , none of the engines depicted appear to show any sign of said "O" rings , which are fitted on the underside of the TC cover at the interchange between the internal oil gallery and the camshaft main journals.

One was missing when I pulled the cover off and the gasket had been reused at some point with some type of sealer, which shouldnt be , but then it's clear some "ham fisted" sod has been doing "Maintenance" - if one could call it that.
I used an "O"ring from a Honda motorcycle to replace the missing one in the meantime (looks like a rubber collar , usually fitted under the barrels at the oil feed studs) , trimmed it by about 3mm and should do the business - better than nowt, the way i see it!

As can be imagined , at 210000 kilos , these are a tad hard and flat and it troubles me not to be able to replace them with new kit! Any ideas??

Post a picture

Sounds like a VVT we didn't get them here in the UK for another couple of years

There's at least 4 different covers mybe more

 

[kmor panda]

Hi guys, this thing is driving me batty , bought another Panda 2007 model ,1.2 dynamic. High mileage but solid , all the usual suspects , control arm bushings etc. And oil leaks.
So I go to the local Fiat stealership in need of a tappet cover gasket , which , blow me down, they actually have 5 in stock!
So i get one , today , I pull the cover only to discover , that in addition to the gasket with it's built in "O" ring , there are 4 others in the underside of the Tappet Cover , which of course , were not included or even mentioned when I bought from aforementioned source.

Now here's the big issue , looking for said "O" rings on line yields nothing except aftermarket gaskets complete in some cases with said "O" rings , however , looking through ePer , by Vin # , none of the engines depicted appear to show any sign of said "O" rings , which are fitted on the underside of the TC cover at the interchange between the internal oil gallery and the camshaft main journals.

One was missing when I pulled the cover off and the gasket had been reused at some point with some type of sealer, which shouldnt be , but then it's clear some "ham fisted" sod has been doing "Maintenance" - if one could call it that.
I used an "O"ring from a Honda motorcycle to replace the missing one in the meantime (looks like a rubber collar , usually fitted under the barrels at the oil feed studs) , trimmed it by about 3mm and should do the business - better than nowt, the way i see it!

As can be imagined , at 210000 kilos , these are a tad hard and flat and it troubles me not to be able to replace them with new kit! Any ideas??

The gasket for that is difficult to source cause many* supply the wrong one. I had to buy 4 before I got the correct one. The actual one comes with all the relevant 'o' rings and the way to identify it online is that the correct one includes the rubber tag (looks like a little flat rectangluar piece of rubber) tht sticks out on the exhaust side of the engine. All others I've seen miss ALL the 'o' rings including the one that is built into the gasket.

The many I am referring to is the scam that appears online, the one supplier with 10-20 different sites advertising multiple different gaskets supposed to fit that car, but none are in stock. I found it in a local car suppliers and not online as most link back to the one supplier origanally started in Germany and now with bases in Poland, Czech Republic, Moldova, France etc.and the best advice I give is to stay away from them as all they supply is hassle and lies.

I made the mistake of ordering a fuel pump off them, and eventually after 3 was sent back plus over 2 moths waithin while the car was off the road, I got the correct one from a local supplier. The oil filter they supplied (right one) had a leaking seal cause the person who packed it had cut it when they removed it - not nice when you drain oil, change oil filter, refil with fresh oil and as soon as you start the engine, oil pumps out of the filter at the damaged seal - and having to change the seal while new oil is showering you. Had to get a second 5L of oil just to replace the lost oil from the 'new' filter.

Back on Topic:-
Be careful and ensure that you replace the O rings with the gasket set - as that is part of the oil pressure / valve adjustment in that engine. As engine oil pressure increases, the valve timing is advanced since they open earlier on the cam lob position. Most Fiat mechanics are unaware of this, and since the car can adapt to oil leaks etc., all that occurs when leaks happen is that the engine can run less thrifty. With the correct 'o' rings, the oil path increases the density of the oil between the cam lobs and the tops of the valve shims. This design allows for the Fiat engine to adapt to wear instead of needing the shims (actuall gaps between cam lobs and valve stems) to be changed / adjusted every 2-5 years.
When you actually get the correct gaskets and 'o' rings, before assembly, use a cleaner to clean out the dirt buildup in the oil channels on the cam shaft cover... AND, within the next 3 months change the oil and oil filter as the remaining dirt that gathers in these oil channels will gather in the oil filter.

 

[koalar]

Bottom right by any chance

 

[somyunguy]

View attachment 429370

Bottom right by any chance

Yes, that would be the correct thing. Part # for the "O" ring is 71740677 , only problem is that OEM , that they are supplied separately and individually at R166.00 each , which is 6.88 GBP each.
When you consider that the actual gasket cost 21.16 GBP , it starts becoming silly not to mention a tad dear!

What's really silly is the agent has 4 gaskets currently in stock but no "O" rings , so tell me please Mr Service Manager , your technicians / mechanics are changing out gaskets without also replacing the "O" rings , which create the seal between the tappet cover oil gallery and the camshaft main journals???

I have for the time being made a work around using some Honda motorcycle "O" rings which look a bit like collars or tall "O" rings , they're used in the same position for the same purpose so they'll suffice at the minute , I'll likely make a mold to make my own or make some modifications to the tappet cover to utilise a conventional style of Nitrile "O" ring.

Unless of course ,someone could suggest a reputable brand or supplier for an aftermarket kit that I might be able to buy.
Athena make excellent motorcycle gasket kits and seals but i don't know about car bits??

 

[koalar]

I changed them when I changed my head gasket

Nearly ordered the wrong headgasket kit myself online listed wrongly

Third party ELRING 724.280 gasket and o rings is £12 here in the uk

Maybe talk to an elring suppler first, the Panda here in the UK didn't get this engine for another couple of years

 

[Popitinpete]

The gasket for that is difficult to source cause many* supply the wrong one. I had to buy 4 before I got the correct one. The actual one comes with all the relevant 'o' rings and the way to identify it online is that the correct one includes the rubber tag (looks like a little flat rectangluar piece of rubber) tht sticks out on the exhaust side of the engine. All others I've seen miss ALL the 'o' rings including the one that is built into the gasket.

The many I am referring to is the scam that appears online, the one supplier with 10-20 different sites advertising multiple different gaskets supposed to fit that car, but none are in stock. I found it in a local car suppliers and not online as most link back to the one supplier origanally started in Germany and now with bases in Poland, Czech Republic, Moldova, France etc.and the best advice I give is to stay away from them as all they supply is hassle and lies.

I made the mistake of ordering a fuel pump off them, and eventually after 3 was sent back plus over 2 moths waithin while the car was off the road, I got the correct one from a local supplier. The oil filter they supplied (right one) had a leaking seal cause the person who packed it had cut it when they removed it - not nice when you drain oil, change oil filter, refil with fresh oil and as soon as you start the engine, oil pumps out of the filter at the damaged seal - and having to change the seal while new oil is showering you. Had to get a second 5L of oil just to replace the lost oil from the 'new' filter.

Back on Topic:-
Be careful and ensure that you replace the O rings with the gasket set - as that is part of the oil pressure / valve adjustment in that engine. As engine oil pressure increases, the valve timing is advanced since they open earlier on the cam lob position. Most Fiat mechanics are unaware of this, and since the car can adapt to oil leaks etc., all that occurs when leaks happen is that the engine can run less thrifty. With the correct 'o' rings, the oil path increases the density of the oil between the cam lobs and the tops of the valve shims. This design allows for the Fiat engine to adapt to wear instead of needing the shims (actuall gaps between cam lobs and valve stems) to be changed / adjusted every 2-5 years.
When you actually get the correct gaskets and 'o' rings, before assembly, use a cleaner to clean out the dirt buildup in the oil channels on the cam shaft cover... AND, within the next 3 months change the oil and oil filter as the remaining dirt that gathers in these oil channels will gather in the oil filter.

His is not the VVT engine, its just a bucket and shim arrangement, they don't run on oil pressure.

These 'o' rings he is talking about only feed the cam journals, the rest of the oil cascades down from the cavity inside the cam cover.

Early engines had a spray bar

 

[Popitinpete]

Hi guys, this thing is driving me batty , bought another Panda 2007 model ,1.2 dynamic. High mileage but solid , all the usual suspects , control arm bushings etc. And oil leaks.
So I go to the local Fiat stealership in need of a tappet cover gasket , which , blow me down, they actually have 5 in stock!
So i get one , today , I pull the cover only to discover , that in addition to the gasket with it's built in "O" ring , there are 4 others in the underside of the Tappet Cover , which of course , were not included or even mentioned when I bought from aforementioned source.

Now here's the big issue , looking for said "O" rings on line yields nothing except aftermarket gaskets complete in some cases with said "O" rings , however , looking through ePer , by Vin # , none of the engines depicted appear to show any sign of said "O" rings , which are fitted on the underside of the TC cover at the interchange between the internal oil gallery and the camshaft main journals.

One was missing when I pulled the cover off and the gasket had been reused at some point with some type of sealer, which shouldnt be , but then it's clear some "ham fisted" sod has been doing "Maintenance" - if one could call it that.
I used an "O"ring from a Honda motorcycle to replace the missing one in the meantime (looks like a rubber collar , usually fitted under the barrels at the oil feed studs) , trimmed it by about 3mm and should do the business - better than nowt, the way i see it!

As can be imagined , at 210000 kilos , these are a tad hard and flat and it troubles me not to be able to replace them with new kit! Any ideas??

Hi, I've had exactly the same situation, when I took my rocker box off I noticed one of these 'o' rings missing too, it's the lower one of the pair on the journal top nearest the cam belt.

Can't find them anywhere, have ordered 9mm diameter x 1.5mm Cross section 'o' rings that will fit, but obviously would like the correct ones.

I wonder if they deliberately leave one off but why does it come with 4 new ones in SOME aftermarket askets....

 

[somyunguy]

His is not the VVT engine, its just a bucket and shim arrangement, they don't run on oil pressure.

These 'o' rings he is talking about only feed the cam journals, the rest of the oil cascades down from the cavity inside the cam cover.

Early engines had a spray bar

Correct. I still don't like the idea of cam journal starvation though!

 

[somyunguy]

Hi, I've had exactly the same situation, when I took my rocker box off I noticed one of these 'o' rings missing too, it's the lower one of the pair on the journal top nearest the cam belt.

Can't find them anywhere, have ordered 9mm diameter x 1.5mm Cross section 'o' rings that will fit, but obviously would like the correct ones.

I wonder if they deliberately leave one off but why does it come with 4 new ones in SOME aftermarket askets....

Same here.

 

[Yolanda]

Interesting. So does my 2004 1200 8 valve square oil filler cap require thease o rings As I changed my cam cover gasket some 3 years ago. I bought it from ECP but there was no o rings with it.

 

[koalar]

Interesting. So does my 2004 1200 8 valve square oil filler cap require thease o rings As I changed my cam cover gasket some 3 years ago. I bought it from ECP but there was no o rings with it.

No yours does not have any

 

[Yolanda]

Thank you kind sir.