General Panda 1.2 2wd or 4x4?

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General Panda 1.2 2wd or 4x4?

stevem4c

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Hi all.

Looking at an old panda for work. It's deliveries so mainly short journeys in towns and b roads, occasional crap pot hole filled farm tracks but they are quite rare to be honest. I've been using an old seat arosa TDI which has been great, but considering a petrol for reliability and cheap motoring.
I've previously used a Dacia duster 4x4 which again was great but seemed a little overkill as i rarely used the 4x4, would a standard panda with winter/all season tyres suffice the Cumbrian roads? I expect a non 4x4 will get a better mpg too. I did use the OH fiat 500 1.2 once or twice and averaged 47mpg which I was impressed with. My seat does around 50 but it's a little long in the tooth now. Finally, what sort of mpg could I expect from a 1.2 FWD and a 1.2 4x4? Honest John seems to say around 40mpg in the 4x4 and 49mpg in the non 4x4 model, and of course tax is less. Is the ride height the same too in the 4x4 and non 4x4 versions? The ground clearance is what's swaying me to a panda to be honest.
 
Milage is purely down to where you drive and the nut behind the wheel, I get high 50s low 60s the other half is mid 30s in the same car but different routes

Same car different drivers, different routes anywhere from 30 to 60mpg 4x4 will be worse

I been everywhere in an old 2wd on 155 tyres over mountain track, down dried up streams across field and down farm tracks

The biggest problem I have is hitting the bottom of the CAT

You have to be supper careful the front wheels don’t drop into hollow

The 4x4 is slightly higher
 
Koalar says it all. We get 45 from the 69hp 1.2 daughter driving and 50 on a run I can get 55+ but rareky do. I have a TA 4x4 which is different, but it uses 30% more fuel than its equivalent 1.2 model. The 4x4 can do economy but you really need to realx and go with it. In Cumbria in winter a 4x4 would get you home on the winter tyres, but again I agree with Koalar that a two wheel drive car will go nearly anywhere unless its icy. The 4x4 is astonishong on snow and ice, as secure as you can get, but repair bills are bound to be higher over time. My big worry is the prop hsat centre bearing but the cost of repairing isnt lefe threatening and I just lkike the knowledge that I will chicken out long before the car will fail to get through.
 
Personally, I would take the 4x4 simply for it's additional ground clearance. The prop shaft bearing is replaceable so not the big issue it gets painted as. Just realise that any noises must be dealt with IMMEDATELY but you should do that with any car. Petrol is cheap compared to underbody repairs. I would consider fitting a functional bash plate under the engine.

The main issue is rust in the rear subframe. You can get replacement swing arms, but the centre section is impossible to get. It "can" be repaired but let it rust too far and there's nothing to work with. The later models use a completely different rear end that looks like a modified 2WD rear axle. Fiat obviously realised stuff had to change.

Front bumper is also hard to get, but a standard Panda bumper fits. Just remove the posh 4x4 bumper and fit an ordinary one. Only Panda experts will notice the difference.

PS I live in Devon - the county with more roads than any other most of which are single track and badly maintained. You can be on a narrow lane with the odd pothole and suddenly find it's a rocky farm track.
 
The main issue is rust in the rear subframe.
That, and wear in the propshaft centre bearing, both becoming more frequently reported on 4WD Pandas as the fleet inevitably ages. Once it's got to the MOT failure stage, rear subframe corrosion will write off a 4WD car; the same failure on a 2WD can be fixed for £150 worth of readily available parts.

My own view is that if you are looking for an older, cheap runabout, keep things as simple as you can; which means a 2WD petrol version.

Ride height is very load dependent on these cars. The weight of what you are carrying will be the biggest factor affecting the ground clearance. A 2WD carrying lightweight parcels will have more ground clearance than a 4WD carrying bags of cement.

If you're basically going to use it as a van, keep the rear seat folded down and put the heavy items as far forward as you can. The amount of stuff you can get into such a small car may pleasantly surprise you.
 
I live in Devon - the county with more roads than any other most of which are single track and badly maintained. You can be on a narrow lane with the odd pothole and suddenly find it's a rocky farm track.
Come to Dorset; you can be on a nice wide road with no potholes and suddenly find it's become a narrow track full of cones, diggers and operatives sitting on shovels, and temporary traffic lights which almost never turn green, building massive cycle lanes on both sides with nothing in them.
 
Thanks for this guys. So the general consensus seems to be play it safe with a 1.2 FWD model with some good winter/all season tyres - that's great.
In terms of load, it's extremely light, it's food delivery so it tends to just go in the foot well and I'm never 4 or 5 up.

So I've been looking at 1.2 FWD models and it seems you can pick up the newer MK4 I believe for similar money to a MK3 (eg an eleganza spec 08 plate on Facebook for £1400, or a 12 plate mk4 pop for £1750) is the MK4 better than the MK3 considering the above? Is the ground clearance less on the MK4? That's what matters to me most really.

A bash plates a good idea to be fair, will look into that.
Thanks
 
That, and wear in the propshaft centre bearing, both becoming more frequently reported on 4WD Pandas as the fleet inevitably ages. Once it's got to the MOT failure stage, rear subframe corrosion will write off a 4WD car; the same failure on a 2WD can be fixed for £150 worth of readily available parts.

My own view is that if you are looking for an older, cheap runabout, keep things as simple as you can; which means a 2WD petrol version.

Ride height is very load dependent on these cars. The weight of what you are carrying will be the biggest factor affecting the ground clearance. A 2WD carrying lightweight parcels will have more ground clearance than a 4WD carrying bags of cement.

If you're basically going to use it as a van, keep the rear seat folded down and put the heavy items as far forward as you can. The amount of stuff you can get into such a small car may pleasantly surprise you.
Yup, absolutely, my vote goes with the 2WD. They are simple to repair and most common spares, both in scrappies and retail outlets - factors, on line etc, S4p deserve special mention - are plentiful and easy to acquire. The rear axle rust is a big factor in the 2WD's favour, and they do rust! Reasonably priced pattern axles are available for under £200. (I M Axles being one supplier.) If you look at many 169 model Pandas you'll notice they seem to be a little "down at the nose" Mine was like this when I bought it, front ride height was noticeably lower than the rear. Not long after buying she blew out a front shock strut (shock absorber) I decided to do a complete refresh of the front suspension as there was detectable, but not dangerous, wear in many components. I found the front ride height problem was caused by "tired" road springs which were slightly shorter than the new ones - no doubt just due to age - and the rubber in the strut top mounts was cracked and "relaxed". Although replacing other parts too it's obvious that the ride height was restored by fitting the top mounts and springs.

The cat is actually part of the manifold and is situated behind the radiator on the front of the engine with the exhaust pipe bending down under the engine where there's a clamp where the centre section bolts to it. I'd say it's this area where the clamp is and the centre section of the exhaust which would be most at risk on rough ground. There's only one silencer which is quite high up behind the rear axle, the centre pipe is just a pipe from front to rear. Definitely one of the cheaper exhaust systems to buy and pretty easy to fit. Being a single box system I think they have a very satisfying "purposeful" exhaust note?

Here's a picture of her after I'd done the front suspension "refresh" and you can see how there's plenty of ride height on the front.

P1100598.JPG


Of course you won't have the same, legendary, "unstopability" of the 4WD but they are better than many I can think of, much of which is due to good ground clearance, relatively narrow tyres and modest power from the engine making wheelspin in slippy conditions less likely. I think the 4WD is probably becoming a bit of an enthusiasts prospect now because of their very different parts and availability - doesn't stop me wanting one though!
 
an eleganza spec 08 plate on Facebook for £1400
If you are looking for a car with cheap RFL, avoid any Eleganza, and all Pandas pre 2009, as they never made the £30RFL emissions cut. Only the 1.1 & 1.2 Active & Dynamic eco Pandas (from 2009 onward IIRC), and the later 2WD diesels qualify.
 
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is the MK4 better than the MK3 considering the above
Quite a few of us here (myself included) think the Mk3 169 is the better car. I'd also take a 60HP Euro4 car over a 69HP Euro5 one (the change came mid-2010).

Pre-Euro4 models won't be £30RFL.

Be careful if buying a suspiciously cheap car. They're usually cheap for a reason, and I've seen quite a few 10+ yr old Pandas that are only fit for scrap.

The economics of running an older Panda depend very much on how much work you are able to do for yourself. Most parts are reasonably priced; labour is expensive.
 
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Think back over the differences between the 4x4 1.2 it’s bigger than I first thought

Electronics
ECU
Throttle body
Wiring

Cam timing different
Possibly the engine block it’s a different code

We have at least two people unable to find a throttle body in the UK, and the cars been of the road for a long period of time
 
I paid £100 (plus petrol costs to collect) it for the 2009 diesel with broken cam chain. It had two good tyres so was worth taking. But while I am doing a nuts and bolts engine overhaul, the work needed is considerable nd there's other stuff to sort out (there always is). It won't end up costing me much cash money but the time is considerable.

Buy very carefully and watch out for rotten rear subframes and knackered front struts. Costs to fix are low so what else got ignored?
 
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