I agree with this. I worked out if I got a Multijet Panda it would take me 10 years motoring to get the difference between a 1.2 and a Multijet back !
So basically it would take me 10 years before I started saving money on fuel !
General Panda 1.1 or 1.2
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General Panda 1.1 or 1.2
I agree with this. I worked out if I got a Multijet Panda it would take me 10 years motoring to get the difference between a 1.2 and a Multijet back !
So basically it would take me 10 years before I started saving money on fuel !
I agree with this. I worked out if I got a Multijet Panda it would take me 10 years motoring to get the difference between a 1.2 and a Multijet back !
So basically it would take me 10 years before I started saving money on fuel !
not really, youcan feel the economy instantly. If you have a diesel or LPG you will pay 65% of the petrol price for the desired destination, so instead e.g 100 euro for a trip you will only have to pay 65 euro. So you will go places you would otherwise not go to...
You wouldn't "feel the economy" until you have made up the difference in purchase price between a Multijet and a 1.2.
A Panda Multijet Dynamic Eco is £1400 more than a 1.2 Dynamic Eco. you would have to do some serious serious mileage to make it worthwhile. I do 5,000 to 6,000 miles a year so I worked out it would take me 10 years roughly to be in profit from a Multijet !
If you don't mind us asking what is the difference price wise between the Pandas you are looking at ?
I can get a
2006 1.1 Panda, 50k km, with LPG for 4700 euro.
2005 1.2 Panda, 50k km, 4500 euro
and a 2003 Corsa 1.0 4700 euro came into play...
Thats what I am trying to tell you. When you have a diesel, you feel like its cheaper to go places and you do go places. If you have a petrol, well not a 1.2 Panda petrol, but generally a big petrol gazler you cannot afford to go anywhere because its very expensive to do so.
I can pay 1000euro extra in front and drive cheaper, but I dont feel like paying more money every week, it will drive me crazy, I feel guilt when I have to pay large amount of cash for FUEL, dont you?
The 1.2 mpg is 42.8 (urban mpg )
The 1.3 mpg is 52.3 (urban mpg )
The 1.2 engine is already extremely economical so with the mileage I do ( 6,000 miles a year ) the £1,400 difference for the Multijet is just too expensive for me.
I would save £112 a year with a Multijet so it would take me 12 AND A HALF YEARS ! to get back the extra £1,400 I paid for it ! don't you understand this ! :bang:
If you do 15,000 miles a year a Multijet would save you £280 a year so it would take you 5 years to get back your £1,400 !
Handy fuel calculator website - http://www.fuel-economy.co.uk/calc.shtml
So like I said you need to be doing serious mileage ( i'm sure some people on here do serious mileage and the car must be perfect for them ) to make the Multijet worthwhile.
Look at this Whatcar review link under the buyers notes, target price bit at the bottom, even they say the 1.2 is the best buy and that the Multijet is FAR TOO EXPENSIVE TO BUY.
http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/fiat/panda-hatchback/summary/25292-5
happypanda
New member
multijet economics are not as simple as that
multijets retain their value very well, and are worth significantly more than the petrol equivalents when you come to sell, assuming you sell at typical car change periods as most people do
also multijets are 35 road tax versus more for the petrols (although the newer petrols have low enough emissions to qualify for low road tax too)
and of course multijets are much better on long motorway journeys, faster more power etc
multijets are also much more sought after seconds hand, so will be easier to sell for a good price
multijets retain their value very well, and are worth significantly more than the petrol equivalents when you come to sell, assuming you sell at typical car change periods as most people do
also multijets are 35 road tax versus more for the petrols (although the newer petrols have low enough emissions to qualify for low road tax too)
and of course multijets are much better on long motorway journeys, faster more power etc
multijets are also much more sought after seconds hand, so will be easier to sell for a good price
There is no road tax in Guernsey so that doesn't help me.
We don't have motorways so your motorway comment doesn't apply to me either.
So all I'm trying to get across is that in my situation ( urban driving, low mileage ) a Multijet isn't a sensible buy.
I did say in my previous post that the Multijet is a good buy if you do serious mileage ( particularly motorway mileage ).
I think 1.2s are equally sought after 2nd hand due to their lower purchase price.
I was just trying to get Pandev to work out the real costs of paying extra for a diesel/LPG car and for him to work out if it is still a good idea. Sometimes depending on situation a diesel sounds like a good cheap to run car but when you do the maths it isn't as cheap as it seems. People can get lulled into buying a diesel by the great looking MPG figures, but you need to do the mileage to make a diesel pay.
Mechanic or LPG conversion place? I'd like to know they're reasoning. Both are suitable for LPG as far as I'm aware.
£540 a year saving on LPG with an average 12k miles a year on a 1.2 returning 42 average MPG on petrol at 108.9 ppl and LPG returning 35mpg at 53.9 ppl.
So 2-2.5 year turn around if doing 12k a year at current petrol prices bearing in mind that petrol is ever increasing.
Take in cheaper tax as a bonus aswell. LPG is certainly something that people seem to understate! I've never looked back and certainly won't be having a car without LPG for a few years to come!
But each to their own
Mechanics, I have 2 friends that work as mechanic. They didn't have the technical answer to tell why one engine is better than the other, so they gave the answer 'from experience'. They say that the 1.0 and 1.1 Fiats tend to blow the head gasket, while the 1.2 is more resilient when run on LPG.
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Chill out mate, lets leave the maths aside, btw you are probably right ;-)
The question still remains, are the 1.1 and 1.2 engines LPG ready. I'v got a couple of answer so far...
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TBH Pandev I can't see an issue with a 1.1 being fitted with LPG.
Having had most of our different Fiats fitted with the FIRE engines of all different sizes we've yet to have a head gasket go. I'm under the impression that they only tend to go if the cars overheated etc.
Jon.
Having had most of our different Fiats fitted with the FIRE engines of all different sizes we've yet to have a head gasket go. I'm under the impression that they only tend to go if the cars overheated etc.
Jon.
babbo umbro
Member
Not sure - I think this is a chicken and egg thing - overheating causing gasket failure or vice versa. I blew two head gaskets on a Cinq Sporting in the space of eight years. The second time was in extremely hot conditions hammering down the autostrada, with Mrs b u driving and resolutely refusing to notice that the temp gauge was way up. Got fixed in Italy where they used an upgraded gasket - presumably used in more up-to-date 1108 engines and it was bullet-proof after that. He did comment that the 1.1 is somewhat prone to head gasket problems and that it's essential to change the water pump as its seal suffers when under steam pressure, and additional cost is relatively small. No experience of 1.2.
babbo umbro
Member
Qualified agreement.
Do your calculations take the difference in road tax into account? Also, anyone doing a significant mileage on the continent is going to save much more on fuel costs with an MJ. There are also the questions of reduced emissions from the MJ, and the difference in performance, which are more subjective but important to some people.
babbo umbro,
I do believe that the diesel is worth buying just for the torque itself. The difference is tremendous. With the diesel I get to drive in 4th 5th 6th gear press the pedal and get mid accelerations petrol can only dream about. Then there is the economy... but thats just me, and I don't want to get off topic.
I want to get opinions about the Fiat engines and LPG
I do believe that the diesel is worth buying just for the torque itself. The difference is tremendous. With the diesel I get to drive in 4th 5th 6th gear press the pedal and get mid accelerations petrol can only dream about. Then there is the economy... but thats just me, and I don't want to get off topic.
I want to get opinions about the Fiat engines and LPG
We had a 2005 1.1 Active for a couple of years and it ran like clockwork.
500c prototype?
babbo umbro
Member
babbo umbro,
I do believe that the diesel is worth buying just for the torque itself. The difference is tremendous. With the diesel I get to drive in 4th 5th 6th gear press the pedal and get mid accelerations petrol can only dream about. Then there is the economy... but thats just me, and I don't want to get off topic.
I want to get opinions about the Fiat engines and LPG
Have you looked at the specs for the Panda "GPL" and "Natural Power" models, available in Italy? They have LPG and methane options respectively and all have the 1.2 engine - perhaps it's as much a weight issue as anything else, as they are quite a bit heavier than straight petrol versions, but it may be that the 1.2 is better suited in other ways. They are expensive compared with petrol (or diesel) - 2000 euros more for GPL and 3650 for Natural power for same trim spec compared with 1950 euros for MJ - but the Italian government hands out hefty subsidies to offset the price. You do see a lot of them about in Italy. The Natural Power is based on the 4x4 in terms of suspension setup to enable the two methane tanks to be mounted under the body rather than taking up boot space.
I bought a 2004 1.2 Dynamic for my partner back in August 07- she's added 24k miles to it since,mostly town work and a 28mile dual carriageway commute to work at 75mph. It returns 43-45mpg tank after tank. Ona decent single carriageway journey it will do 47mpg, and if you want to tootle along at 45-50 as we did ona long weekend in Devon then over 50mpg is achieveable. Its been 100% reliable so far, having had nothing bar a set of front tyres for £86 , wiper blades and servicing. The front drop links needs doing currently but even the Fiat dealer will do both for well under £100.
We hired a Panda in Austria one summer - a 1.1 engined version. Not exactly great for tackling the Gross Glockner mountain pass, but it coped admireably with the two of us and the 7 year old in the back. Couldn't honestly say it felt that much slower than the 1.2, although it went a heck of a lot better once i'd put super unleaded in it !
I had a work mate who had the 1108cc in a Punto - he had 2 head gaskets in 2 years. Maybe bad workmanship but the places he took it for repair said it was a common repair. Times have moved on since then, Fiat have probably sorted the issue long ago.
I'm not aware of any issues on this forum with either engine, even the boy racers in their 1.2 500s haven't had issues.
LPG conversion ? - every country has their own legislation and costs. It might be cheaper int he long run but if you buy a Panda with 50,000kms on it ask yourself will you still be driving that car in at 100k kms? Also where does the tank go, the boot space isn't exactly great as it is.
We hired a Panda in Austria one summer - a 1.1 engined version. Not exactly great for tackling the Gross Glockner mountain pass, but it coped admireably with the two of us and the 7 year old in the back. Couldn't honestly say it felt that much slower than the 1.2, although it went a heck of a lot better once i'd put super unleaded in it !
I had a work mate who had the 1108cc in a Punto - he had 2 head gaskets in 2 years. Maybe bad workmanship but the places he took it for repair said it was a common repair. Times have moved on since then, Fiat have probably sorted the issue long ago.
I'm not aware of any issues on this forum with either engine, even the boy racers in their 1.2 500s haven't had issues.
LPG conversion ? - every country has their own legislation and costs. It might be cheaper int he long run but if you buy a Panda with 50,000kms on it ask yourself will you still be driving that car in at 100k kms? Also where does the tank go, the boot space isn't exactly great as it is.
