OT -Bravo's low power outputs

[Matthew]

I have a 98' HLX, and while I love the car and its willing and characterful engine, I cannnot help wondering why its 1.8 litre engine only has 113BHP. My friends 1993 Mirage 1.5 litre has 115BHP!!

I see many Japanese cars with smaller engines producing much more horsepower than my car. I know older Japanese cars were not so restricted by emissions regulations, and that they have to be revved hard to extract the power, but then so do Fiat engines....

Even with VVT the 1.8 Fiat lump lags behind Japanese rivals in the power department.

One thing the Europeans can do is torque, and engine notes.

But can anyone tell me if there is something the Japanese know that the Italians dont?

Bless my Bravo.

 

[cynic-al]

or the crx with its 160bhp 1.6 or the integra with its 180bhp 1.8 etc etc.

If you've ever driven one of the above they are very revvy, they will go to something stupid like 9000 rpm which helps with the bhp figure. The theory is great, economical for round town and powerful if you want a blat. However you do have to keep the revs up and i don't like driving them as much as a higher torque engine personally.

 

[Tom]

BHP is a made up figure, if you make the engine rev higher the BHP goes up.

Most engines make peak power at around 6k, the vtecs make peak power close to 9k. A 600cc motorbike engine will make over 110BHP at 14k.

BHP is totally dependant on the rev range the engine works over. You can't simply say that an xyz cc engine should make abc BHP.

 

[rsmallwo]

torque

Should we be looking more at torque when it comes to comparing engine power?

or should we look at torque and bhp.

 

[jay]

Re: torque

torque power and weight really, as i was taught power is just the torque multiplied by the engine speed (if i remember correctly, any help tom?), hence higher revving engines of a smaller capacity will make higher power figures but are still making less torque than a larger capacity engine may make, due to all the forces inside the engine.... complicated and i'm gonna stop myself before i ramble, and of course there is the weight issue, the better your bhp/tonne the better your car/bike will go (simplifying it a bit) but im sure ye all know this anyway! ramble over

 

[Tom]

Re: torque

5252 is the magic number. (or 3 depending who you ask)

Troque & its RPM
BHP & its RPM
Weight
Gearing

 

[rsmallwo]

eh?

eh?

excuse my none engineering degree background

 

[Tom]

Re: eh?

You should look at the torque, where it peaks, the BHP, where it peaks, the weight of the vehicle, the gearing etc..

You can have 2 cars with identical engines, one geared for 150MPH, the other geared for 100MPH. One will do 0-60 FAR faster.

 

[jay]

Re: eh?

good point well made, shame i'm not as good at putting it into words...

 

[Matthew]

Re: eh?

So, The Bravo is geared towards top speed, as opposed to "0-60"? Because currently the cooking Bravo's are a bit limp in that regard.

As the Bravo is a bit of a porker, its weight and gearing restrict its 0-60 time? (I'm talking 1.8l here).

 

[Tom]

Re: eh?

Compared to a laxo they are a bit heavy, but the french use tin foil for bodywork. Also something like the laxo has had its gearing tweaked to get to 60 in second no probs. More changes = slower time. Its why a lot of 6 speed cars have slightly worse 0-60.

Its JUST possible in a 1.6 bravo to make 60 in 2nd, not sure about the others, but you can't be scared of going past 6k

But is 0-60 and top speed all you care about in a car? If it is you shouldn't have bought a bravo

 

[Matthew]

Re: eh?

I'm certainly not a figure-basher. I appreciate the Bravo's design and character, I was just curious.