Styling Osram Nightbreaker's

[jrkitching]

I have had this conversation before on Piston Heads. There is no maximum wattage level on main, dipped or spot lights in the UK only a minimum level.

The bulbs are illegal, end of.

Bulbs fitted to any vehicle first put into service on UK roads since 1/4/86 must be compliant with ECE Regulation 37 (in the case of filament lamps) or Regulation 99 (in the case of Xenon lamps), which stipulate the power (wattage) and output (lumens) for each permitted bulb type. There is no blanket wattage limit; maximum allowable power consumption varies by bulb type and nominal design voltage, but in no case are 100W bulbs permitted.

Bulbs must carry appropriate markings of conformity to demonstrate compliance with the above regulations and it is illegal to use any bulb which does not do so on the public highway. If you do, and you have an accident which could in any way be attributable to the bulbs, your insurer would be within their rights to invalidate your insurance and recover all third party costs from you.

Do not be deceived into thinking your car is compliant with the regulations just because it passes an MOT test.

 

[Mick F]

We haven't sold our Clio yet, but we may do in the next few months.

Just say Joe Public buys a secondhand car with 100w full beam halogens like wot we got.
Just say he owns the car for some years with no issue, and has no idea that he has "illegal" bulbs. His car is serviced, MOT'd, checked, and he's happy.

It's a poor show if he gets penalised. What's a fellow to do when he buys a secondhand car? Get every single thing and every single item checked for compliance?

I think not.

Regards,
Mick.

 

[jrkitching]

We haven't sold our Clio yet, but we may do in the next few months.

Just say Joe Public buys a secondhand car with 100w full beam halogens like wot we got.
Just say he owns the car for some years with no issue, and has no idea that he has "illegal" bulbs. His car is serviced, MOT'd, checked, and he's happy.

It's a poor show if he gets penalised.

I very much doubt that he would. If he blinded another road user and caused an accident attributable to those bulbs, his argument that he was unaware of the illegal bulb fitment would most likely be accepted by the insurance company.

That same insurance company could then seek to recover all their costs from the person who knowingly sold the insured party an unroadworthy vehicle.

 

[Vitesse]

The bulbs are illegal, end of.

Bulbs fitted to any vehicle first put into service on UK roads since 1/4/86 must be compliant with ECE Regulation 37 (in the case of filament lamps) or Regulation 99 (in the case of Xenon lamps), which stipulate the power (wattage) and output (lumens) for each permitted bulb type. There is no blanket wattage limit; maximum allowable power consumption varies by bulb type and nominal design voltage, but in no case are 100W bulbs permitted.

Bulbs must carry appropriate markings of conformity to demonstrate compliance with the above regulations and it is illegal to use any bulb which does not do so on the public highway. If you do, and you have an accident which could in any way be attributable to the bulbs, your insurer would be within their rights to invalidate your insurance and recover all third party costs from you.

Do not be deceived into thinking your car is compliant with the regulations just because it passes an MOT test.

There not illegal. I don't understand why you are quoting from a UN document??? That has nothing to do with UK law?

 

[306maxi]

There not illegal. I don't understand why you are quoting from a UN document??? That has nothing to do with UK law?

The bulbs are illegal, end of. All bulbs must be e marked and the maximum wattage at which they can be e marked is 55/60w.

 

[jrkitching]

There not illegal. I don't understand why you are quoting from a UN document??? That has nothing to do with UK law?

Wrong.

UK legislation requires vehicles first used after 1/4/86 to comply with the terms of these documents, which is why I've quoted them.

There's a good reason why folks selling these products include the wording 'not legal for road use' in their advertising.

Sadly there's also always some joker who thinks the rules don't apply to them.

 

[Mick F]

Dark now, and I'm too sleepy and ready for bed, but I'll pull out a 100w halogen from the Clio tomorrow and see what's written on it. I think I still have the packet they came in, and the old bulbs were put into them.

As far as I'm aware, there was no warning one way or another when I bought the 100w bulbs. I'll check tomorrow.

Any road up, I started this part of the thread with a bit of an anecdote as a by-the-by to explain that you don't need to go to great lengths to get brighter bulbs.

Thanks,
Mick.

 

[Vitesse]

That document is referring to UN service vehicles in the UK nothing to do with UK law.

They are not illegal. Like I said I have had this conversation before, so I have dug out the link. This one is for main beams and spot lights. No mention of 100W bulbs at all.

No 8 Wattage No Requirement

No 9 Intensity No Requirement

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/5/made

 

[dave]

We haven't sold our Clio yet, but we may do in the next few months.

Just say Joe Public buys a secondhand car with 100w full beam halogens like wot we got.
Just say he owns the car for some years with no issue, and has no idea that he has "illegal" bulbs. His car is serviced, MOT'd, checked, and he's happy.

It's a poor show if he gets penalised. What's a fellow to do when he buys a secondhand car? Get every single thing and every single item checked for compliance?

I think not.

Regards,
Mick.

in law ignorance isn't innocence, so if said person was involved in an accident and the other driver said he was blinded by the lights police would check bulbs and a prosecution may follow and insurance may refuse to pay out too

 

[jrkitching]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/5/made

From that document:

5. Markings–

(a) Any vehicle not covered by sub-paragaph (b), (c) or (d):
An approval mark or a British Standard mark

13. Definitions–

In this Schedule–

“approval mark” means–
(a)

a marking designated as an approval mark by regulation 5 of the Designation of Approval Marks Regulations and shown at item 12 or 13 or 17 of Schedule 4 to those Regulations; or
(b)

a marking designated as an approval mark by regulation 4 of the Designation of Approval Marks Regulations and shown at item 1A or 1B or 1F or 5A or 5B or 5F or 8C or 8D or 8E or 8F or 8M or 8N or 20C or 20D or 20E or 20F or 20M or 20N or 31A or 31D of Schedule 2 to those Regulations

Now go find me a 100W bulb that carries such an approval mark.

 

[306maxi]

That document is referring to UN service vehicles in the UK nothing to do with UK law.

They are not illegal. Like I said I have had this conversation before, so I have dug out the link. This one is for main beams and spot lights. No mention of 100W bulbs at all.

No 8 Wattage No Requirement

No 9 Intensity No Requirement

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/5/made

You're wrong, end of story

 

[jrkitching]

You're wrong, end of story

Sadly Daniel I don't think he's listening.

Perhaps one day VOSA will have a blitz on folks who persist in blinding innocent drivers and just crush the offending vehicles.

In my dreams .

 

[Mick F]

Hi guys, and good morning.

Going back to our Clio and 100w full beams.
I fitted these because of the poor performance of the original 60w bulbs. It wasn't that they weren't bright, it was that the lenses are rubbish. By upping the power to 100w, the useful light became as good as it should have been had Renault used better lens technology. Consequently, my 100w bulbs are no more dazzling our unsociable than decent lenses with 60w.

From the Ring Lamp high wattage upgraded 100w packet that I still have:

Vehicles manufactured after 1st Oct 1985

These vehicles can only be fitted with E approved headlight and foglight bulbs. For additional auxiliary driving lamps fitted to vehicles manufactured after 1st April 1991 bulbs must now also be E approved. High wattage bulbs are not E approved and therefore only be fitted for off-road use.

There are no restrictions for vehicles before the above dates.

So there you have it. I could have any power I want in a car pre-1985, and be as bright and unsociable as I want too, also, I could have unsociable spot lamps on any vehicle pre-1991.

Regards to all,
Mick.

 

[306maxi]

What year is your Clio?

 

[jrkitching]

What year is your Clio?

I think Mick might claim the 5th amendment on that one.

Hi guys, and good morning.

'Morning Mick

So there you have it. I could have any power I want in a car pre-1985, and be as bright and unsociable as I want too, also, I could have unsociable spot lamps on any vehicle pre-1991.

Not quite - even on a pre '85 car, your headlights still have to comply with the part of the regulations that covers not blinding other drivers.

The difference is that you can't legally fit them to a post '85 car, irrespective of how bright they are (or aren't). You don't have to be inconveniencing anyone for it to be an offence; just having them fitted is enough.

It's unlikely to be picked up at MOT time as the tester is not allowed to dismantle anything and therfore can't examine the E marking (or lack of it) on the bulbs.

I'd still be concerned about the insurance implications if you are unfortunate enough to be involved in a situation where the other driver claims they were blinded by your lights, as the police and/or insurance company might then investigate further.

I'd agree it's unlikely, but the consequences could be serious in a 'worst case' scenario.

 

[Mick F]

What year is your Clio?

April 2001.
No blinding of anyone. Perfectly fine, but (sadly) not legal.

Regards,
Mick.

 

[306maxi]

Perfectly fine isn't a judgement to make We live in a land of rules and regulations for a reason

 

[Mick F]

What reason is that?

We were in the same shop this morning where I bought the bulbs all those years ago. They still sell them, and complete spotlights too with the 100w bulbs. The box that the spotlights are in has a logo regarding off road and a picture of a Landrover, but no warning that they are illegal for on-road use - maybe there was a warning in small print on the back, but it wasn't evident at all.

If you fit these, what's to stop you switching them on whenever you want?

Thanks,
Mick.

 

[MrDerv]

What reason is that?

We were in the same shop this morning where I bought the bulbs all those years ago. They still sell them, and complete spotlights too with the 100w bulbs. The box that the spotlights are in has a logo regarding off road and a picture of a Landrover, but no warning that they are illegal for on-road use - maybe there was a warning in small print on the back, but it wasn't evident at all.

If you fit these, what's to stop you switching them on whenever you want?

Thanks,
Mick.

The usual disclaimer on the packaging will likely say "For off-road use only". As do all non e-marked bulbs such as these http://www.halfords.com/motoring/bu...bulbs/halfords-hbu477-ultra-blue-car-bulb-x-1

 

[jrkitching]

If you fit these, what's to stop you switching them on whenever you want?

No one is going to reach into your car and physically stop you switching them on.

Like most rules & regulations, whether we choose to obey them is ultimately our personal choice.

But if we choose not to play by the rules, then we must also accept the consequences if something goes wrong, or if we get found out by those whose are responsible for enforcing the rules.

In today's society, like it or not, a 'blame' culture definitely exists; if something bad does happen, you can be sure there will always be someone who will use the fact that you were on the wrong side of the rules to make you a scapegoat for all the consequences of the incident. That could lead to your facing costs and penalties which may go far beyond what you might think is fair or reasonable.