Technical oil pan drain plug stuck (with images) help me i beg of you!

[Sweetsixteen]

... Neither method will get all the oil out, and the real world difference is likely negligible. Easy enough to check if you vacuum it out & then remove the drain plug and see what you get.

In days past, drain plugs were often magnetic and it wasn't unusual to find ferrous particles attached to them; I'd always remove a magnetic plug when changing the oil. But AFAIK magnetic plugs aren't used on any modern Fiat.

I found these points very interesting. A few general comments:

I also have two Citroen Berlingos with the 1.6hdi engines (used also in Peugeot and Ford). Both have a recessed sump plug, so that it does not catch on any road obstacle (like proud manhole covers). Draining through the plug leaves almost a litre of oil in the sump. Annoying if you're trying to do a thorough job the traditional way.

As for magnetic plugs, It is easy to attach a magnet to the outside of the sump if you feel this will help retain any metal fragments to stop them circulating.

 

[dac69er]

looking at your pics, i would attend to the build up of what looks like CV joint grease on your exhaust flexi joint. your car must stink of oil/grease when the exhaust gets hot!

 

[andy1]

looking at your pics, i would attend to the build up of what looks like CV joint grease on your exhaust flexi joint. your car must stink of oil/grease when the exhaust gets hot!

Thanks for reminding me,

I wanted to ask what is that stuff on top of the exhaust flexi joint?

I didn't put anything over there... is it just dirt that got over there on a rainy day? or is there any reason a mechanic would put grease over there?

 

[g8rpi]

I found these points very interesting. A few general comments:

I also have two Citroen Berlingos with the 1.6hdi engines (used also in Peugeot and Ford). Both have a recessed sump plug, so that it does not catch on any road obstacle (like proud manhole covers). Draining through the plug leaves almost a litre of oil in the sump. Annoying if you're trying to do a thorough job the traditional way.

As for magnetic plugs, It is easy to attach a magnet to the outside of the sump if you feel this will help retain any metal fragments to stop them circulating.

Rather than putting a magnet on the outside were you can't clean the metal it collects I stick (with epoxy) a small button magnet to the sump plug. It should be 1/2 to 3/4 the diameter of the end of plug. Modern rare earth magnets are very strong so you will soon find if the engine is generating magnetic particles.


Robert G8RPI

 

[g8rpi]

Thanks for reminding me,

I wanted to ask what is that stuff on top of the exhaust flexi joint?

I didn't put anything over there... is it just dirt that got over there on a rainy day? or is there any reason a mechanic would put grease over there?

Hi,
I can't see the photos (at work and firewall blocks them), but form the description it sounds like you may have a damaged CV joint boot (rubber cover on drive shaft). Have a close look at any boot roughly in line with the exhaust were the grease is and check for splits. You have to move the rubber as a small split will close when stationary. If you are loosing grease get it fixed or you will need a new joint as well as the boot.


Robert G8RPI.

 

[Sweetsixteen]

Rather than putting a magnet on the outside were you can't clean the metal it collects I stick (with epoxy) a small button magnet to the sump plug. It should be 1/2 to 3/4 the diameter of the end of plug. Modern rare earth magnets are very strong so you will soon find if the engine is generating magnetic particles.


Robert G8RPI

Great idea.
As long as you can still get a socket on the plug after bonding a magnet 3/4 of its diameter to it.

Ah ... first undo the plug, then fix the magnet on its inner surface. Light dawns! Just be confident of your gluing skills!

I have an external neodymium magnet right next to the sump plug, but so far I haven't removed the plug to feel the results.

 

[koalar]

Looks like oil from further up the mud and dust has built up on.


Clean it off. Should be obvious if it's oil or grease.

 

[g8rpi]

Great idea.
As long as you can still get a socket on the plug after bonding a magnet 3/4 of its diameter to it.

Ah ... first undo the plug, then fix the magnet on its inner surface. Light dawns! Just be confident of your gluing skills!

I have an external neodymium magnet right next to the sump plug, but so far I haven't removed the plug to feel the results.

You don't actually need the glue to hold the magnet in place, magnetism does that, but it is belt and braces and make it easier to clean any particles off. Pitting a magnet on the outside won't work well if at all with a steel sump as the steel will "short circuit" the magnetic field.


Robert G8RPI

 

[ADRIAN22]

Can I suggest that when the hex drain plug is removed, weld a short lengh of cut off allen key to the drain plug. Then you can use a ring spanner to remove plug really easy. I did this to the wife 500 sump plug as in time the allen key socket in drain plug starts to get that worn that the key struggles to get a good grip.

Ade:wave:

 

[andy1]

Hi,
I can't see the photos (at work and firewall blocks them), but form the description it sounds like you may have a damaged CV joint boot (rubber cover on drive shaft). Have a close look at any boot roughly in line with the exhaust were the grease is and check for splits. You have to move the rubber as a small split will close when stationary. If you are loosing grease get it fixed or you will need a new joint as well as the boot.


Robert G8RPI.

I'll put the car on the stands again tonight and take some pictures

Thank you very much, really appreciate it!

The boot is the black accordion(fisarmonica) cover right?

 

[g8rpi]

I'll put the car on the stands again tonight and take some pictures

Thank you very much, really appreciate it!

The boot is the black accordion(fisarmonica) cover right?

Correct.
I can now see the photos and that CV Boot has failed. Well spotted by Dac68er. You can see grease that has been thrown out sideways onto structure as well as down onto the exhaust. You will need a new boot and new grease. Unfortunatly a bit more of a job than changing the oil. I had one go on along motorway trip in a Renault 6 many years ago. Took a gentle exit into a sevices but when I went to pull into a parking space the steering would not turn .

Robert G8RPI

 

[Sweetsixteen]

... Pitting a magnet on the outside won't work well if at all with a steel sump as the steel will "short circuit" the magnetic field.Robert G8RPI

Often agree with your knowledge and comments Robert, but this is not totally correct.

Here's a simple experiment: Pour a few iron filings on a steel plate. Now hold a magnet under the plate and move it around. The iron filings on top of the plate will follow the magnet. The magnet works just as well under the plate as above it.

I had to partially strip the autobox last year in my Mercedes (the autobox has a steel sump similar to a car engine's). A magnet was attached to the steel sump, and when I checked I learnt that this was a standard MB fitment, designed to collect metallic particles. It certainly worked, because there was a build up of metallic sludge above the magnet. There was more sludge than in a normal engine sump - probably because of wear in the clutch plates of the autobox.

 

[g8rpi]

Often agree with your knowledge and comments Robert, but this is not totally correct.

Here's a simple experiment: Pour a few iron filings on a steel plate. Now hold a magnet under the plate and move it around. The iron filings on top of the plate will follow the magnet. The magnet works just as well under the plate as above it.

I had to partially strip the autobox last year in my Mercedes (the autobox has a steel sump similar to a car engine's). A magnet was attached to the steel sump, and when I checked I learnt that this was a standard MB fitment, designed to collect metallic particles. It certainly worked, because there was a build up of metallic sludge above the magnet. There was more sludge than in a normal engine sump - probably because of wear in the clutch plates of the autobox.

Hi,
Good comment and you are correct, but I did say not as well if at all, rather than it won't work. It depends on the sump material and the magnet. A strong magnet on thin steel will work (but not as well as inside) but a weaker magnet on thick iron won't. It's down to the permeability of the metal. The magnetic screw trays Snap On etc sell work well because they are stainless steel which is very low permeability, thousands of times lower than iron.
You don't see many thick iron sumps though .
The advantages of gluing it to the sump plug are a very strong field across the height of the magnet and you don't have to drop the sump to check or clean it.

Robert G8RPI

 

[chris3234]

Drain plug removal is now becoming a constant problem with some late model cars.

Mercedes, for example, are supplied with plastic sumps, and removing the plug sometimes destroys the sump. MB Dealers are now changing oil as a matter of course with an extraction pump. American service stations also use this method regularly.

Maybe the sump plug will go the way of the starting handle? Sign of things to come?

Onsome cars the sump plug has allready gone
I'm know a few mercs for example the oil has to be pumped out as they don't have a drain plug fitted

 

[Sweetsixteen]

That's a coming trend, Chris.

Plastic sumps - along with plastic engine covers, plastic ancillaries, bumpers, panels, interior - we'll all soon be driving electric plasticars - just when they're about to ban plastic bags!

Crazy world we live in.

 

[andy1]

Correct.
I can now see the photos and that CV Boot has failed. Well spotted by Dac68er. You can see grease that has been thrown out sideways onto structure as well as down onto the exhaust. You will need a new boot and new grease. Unfortunatly a bit more of a job than changing the oil. I had one go on along motorway trip in a Renault 6 many years ago. Took a gentle exit into a sevices but when I went to pull into a parking space the steering would not turn .

Robert G8RPI

Please everyone, I really need some advice here!

I like this car but it's old and don't want to spend much money on it...
I just want to increase my chances that the steering wheel won't stop working from one day to another (on an important day!)

Here is a video of my car axle


About the car:
It's a 2006 Panda 1.3 Multijet Emotion (Eleganza)

It has less than 70.000 kms, but it belonged to my mother for six years.
She is not a really careful driver, she does not try to avoid pot holes etc.

I already replaced shock absorbers, control arms.
Some mechanics told me the steering box needs replacing, others said it's still ok, so I did nothing.

Is there anything I can look/try to make the right decision?
Thanks and sorry for being a pain...

 

[Sweetsixteen]

I suggest you get the nearside gaiter sorted at the gearbox, check the gearbox oil level, and you should be good to go for another 70k kms.

Leaking driveshaft seals - which is what you're showing us there - are fairly common, and not a huge job to rectify.

 

[koalar]

Also looks like an oil leak at the 41 second mark. Ignore me. Just seen its already been answered above.

 

[g8rpi]

Please everyone, I really need some advice here!

I like this car but it's old and don't want to spend much money on it...
I just want to increase my chances that the steering wheel won't stop working from one day to another (on an important day!)

Here is a video of my car axle
<snip>

About the car:
It's a 2006 Panda 1.3 Multijet Emotion (Eleganza)

It has less than 70.000 kms, but it belonged to my mother for six years.
She is not a really careful driver, she does not try to avoid pot holes etc.

I already replaced shock absorbers, control arms.
Some mechanics told me the steering box needs replacing, others said it's still ok, so I did nothing.

Is there anything I can look/try to make the right decision?
Thanks and sorry for being a pain...

Hi,
It is an inboard joint so at least the steering won't lock up. Definitely a loss of grease from the CV joint gaiter but you can't see the split in the video. They can be very small splits but still let all the grease out.
Ideally you need to take the driveshaft out and fit a proper gaiter /boot and new grease of course.
If you are stuck for time / money then you could fit a split type boot that fits without taking the driveshaft out. something like this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL-SPLIT-OUTER-CV-BOOT-GAITER-DRIVESHAFT-JOINT-COVER-RUBBER-STRETCHY/222207405441?
The gaiter is superglued together. I've never used one but it would be better than nothing and might last years.
Also see these threads
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-cla...int-boot-replacement.html?426238=#post4080679
and
https://www.fiatforum.com/stilo/442418-cv-gaiter.html?442418=#post4198082


Robert G8RPI.

 

[andy1]

If you are stuck for time / money then you could fit a split type boot that fits without taking the driveshaft out. something like this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL-SPLIT-OUTER-CV-BOOT-GAITER-DRIVESHAFT-JOINT-COVER-RUBBER-STRETCHY/222207405441?
The gaiter is superglued together. I've never used one but it would be better than nothing and might last years.
Also see these threads
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-cla...int-boot-replacement.html?426238=#post4080679
and
https://www.fiatforum.com/stilo/442418-cv-gaiter.html?442418=#post4198082


Robert G8RPI.

That is really interesting, maybe I can manage to replace that CV joint boot myself with only my jack and car stand.

Any safe way to check the 4 CV joints? (like checking for play/turning/noise...)

From what I see on youtube, if I don't have any clicking noise when turning then the outer CV joints are probably ok... but what about the inner CV joints

the nearside gaiter sorted at the gearbox

Leaking driveshaft seals

I don't understand these...