Technical Oil Change

[306maxi]

I had my first service the other day and the dealer has put 10w60 oil (Helix Ultra racing) in my Abarth 500, instead of 10w50 as specified in the manual, which does not meet the C3 standards. Its the same dealer i bought the car from and since they are offering me a 5 year full warranty i think i'll keep that oil in the engine for the next 6 months.

The dealer should use 10w50 and nothing different. Why do these tosspot dealers think that they know better than the manufacturers??????

 

[ahmett]

The dealer should use 10w50 and nothing different. Why do these tosspot dealers think that they know better than the manufacturers??????

Well iraklas is your dealer in cyprus any good, or are they just lazy bums ripping you off for your money?

From what i see 10w60 is worse than 10w50 so i think you got a bad deal = )

 

[306maxi]

I did a little reading about that oil last night. IMHO it is too thick. A lot of the A500 drivers use the 5W-40 but some are using the more expensive Abarth 10W-50 if they are esseessed or TMCd. A problem with heavier oil is that it is not giving the initial protection on startup. Probably OK in a racing engine that's flat out but for an everyday car ?

Completely agree my good man. Fiat chose specific oil specs for a reason. When in warranty these should be stuck to religiously!

 

[306maxi]

are they just lazy bums ripping you off for your money?

Is the Pope evil looking?

 

[loveshandbags]

Completely agree my good man. Fiat chose specific oil specs for a reason. When in warranty these should be stuck to religiously!

IIRC the article or god help us another forum 'they' said that comparing 0w40 oil to 10w60 it was twice as thick (that might be a little OTT). And that's 'parking' the ACEA C3 spec to one side.

 

[iraklas]

You got me worried. But since we don't have such low temperatures here (5-6 degrees minimum) can't we assume that the oil will be ok in regards to its viscosity? I don't want to argue with them again. They seem to know nothing.

 

[loveshandbags]

I've often wondered what the flow of money is where a manufacturer recommends a particular oil. Does the oil co pay the car co for being "bigged up" or does the car co pay the oil co for using their luxury oil? or is it all just done without fear or favour?

Call me a cynic but I have always suspected that car co's earn money from nominating a particular oil/fuel as their preferred partner in the same way that Pot Noodle pays to be the preferred snack food partner of the Wolverhampton Area Indoor Hula Hoop Championships (or whatever).

I thought the same as well but I'm now of the understanding that Fiat specifically developed oil for their engines. 'Off the shelf' there isn't that much available in the 5w40 ACEA C3 oil.

TBH I can't understand why the 1.2 - an old engine - needs the Selenia KPE as opposed to the Selenia K.
The bhp output of the Panda 1.2 at 60bhp and the 500 at 69bhp as already mentioned - tolerances might have got tighter.

I did check out the Selenia web site for more information but it didn't work for me...
http://www.flselenia.co.uk/

I did find a summary explanation off fiat’s own forum and this is how one poster put it…

SELENIA website and amazingly they do a 10W40 for petrol engines
called SELENIA 20K 10w40 for new generation engines...
there is SELENIA K 5W40 for modern petrol engine .i e F.I.R.E .
also SELENIA KPE 5W40 for new petrol, but best for turbo

So is the 1.2 a new petrol engine.

 

[RobinPJ]

GMT or Euro time?

Nope, that's not the trick.

 

[ahmett]

I thought the same as well but I'm now of the understanding that Fiat specifically developed oil for their engines. 'Off the shelf' there isn't that much available in the 5w40 ACEA C3 oil.

TBH I can't understand why the 1.2 - an old engine - needs the Selenia KPE as opposed to the Selenia K.
The bhp output of the Panda 1.2 at 60bhp and the 500 at 69bhp as already mentioned - tolerances might have got tighter.

I did check out the Selenia web site to more information but it didn't work for me.
http://www.flselenia.co.uk/

I did find a summary explanation off the fiat’s own forum and this is how one poster put it…

SELENIA website and amazingly they do a 10W40 for petrol engines
called SELENIA 20K 10w40 for new generation engines...
there is SELENIA K 5W40 for modern petrol engine .i e F.I.R.E .
also SELENIA KPE 5W40 for new petrol, but best for turbo

So is the 1.2 a new petrol engine.

By the way i was reading the 2012 GTR's owners manual.
(i think the gtr has one of the most tuned engines commercially available in a car) and it says their factory fitted oil is Mobil 1 0w- 40! It then says 10w-40 can be used if 0w is not available but 'some performance loss may be noticed'.

 

[frupi]

Completely agree my good man. Fiat chose specific oil specs for a reason. When in warranty these should be stuck to religiously!

I'm 100 percent with you Maxi. 5w40 ACEA C3 for me, though I may not necessarily want to stick with Fiat's own preferred brand of oil, I am more than happy to buy stuff of like for like spec, especially as I now know what other brands are available that meet Fiat spec. (The oil filter is a completely different issue, I will only ever use original - always).

 

[loveshandbags]

You got me worried. But since we don't have such low temperatures here (5-6 degrees minimum) can't we assume that the oil will be ok in regards to its viscosity? I don't want to argue with them again. They seem to know nothing.

If it was me I would offer to pay for new Abarth specific oil 10w50 and let them do the labour complementary. I once had Mobil 0w40 in a previous 500 and I got it changed when I noticed it was a little tappety - it did worry me a bit. Aside from the 10w60 being the 'wrong' oil it will affect your mpg.

 

[iraklas]

Another thing. Aren't 10w50 and 10w60 oils the same regarding start-up protection? I thought the first figure represented viscosity levels on start-up. I've been searching for a 10w50 oil in my country with no luck. I can order through online shops and have it shipped but it will cost me around 70 pounds.

 

[loveshandbags]

Tbh, it's just the price of Selenia that puts me off.

I've only just got off the phone to a very local independent Alfa/Fiat specialist garage only a few hundred metres away from where I live. I asked him what oil he uses and he stated Selenia telling me he only ever uses it because of the warranty issues surrounding customer vehicles who don't want to pay stealership prices. Bearing in mind that the wife's 500 will only have covered approx 6000 miles come end of Feb 12 after year one, he has just quoted me 100 quid plus VAT to do an oil/filter change and a basic inspection of the car to stay within warranty. I've seen his premises, and they are clean and very professional (but full of Alfa's!!)

My 'local' Fiat garage is full of Alfas as well !
Some new rule came in where they had to have some many Fiats so they don't have them in the showroom anymore.

Re the price of the Selenia shop4parts do good prices and being a forum member you can get a 10% discount. Not too sure if the free delivery bit on orders over £40 works anymore or if it does not apply to oil because of the weight.

Chris@souls does service packs (a forum trader) at keen prices but I'm unsure about the oil.

For anyone out there worrying about putting to much oil in your engine you can get a 2L and a 1L pack separately so you wouldn't overfill. Although in the 1.4 engine that I have which uses oil I would have to get the 2L x 2 or the 5L.

 

[ahmett]

Another thing. Aren't 10w50 and 10w60 oils the same regarding start-up protection? I thought the first figure represented viscosity levels on start-up. I've been searching for a 10w50 oil in my country with no luck. I can order through online shops and have it shipped but it will cost me around 70 pounds.

Why dont you get some 0w-40?

 

[loveshandbags]

Another thing. Aren't 10w50 and 10w60 oils the same regarding start-up protection? I thought the first figure represented viscosity levels on start-up. I've been searching for a 10w50 oil in my country with no luck. I can order through online shops and have it shipped but it will cost me around 70 pounds.

If you google the 'racing oil' fitted to your A500 you will get a lot of inputs from other forums in particular the Honda one. The link below came from a URL already posted on here and its reliablilty was questioned on another thread (an older one). But it makes a stab at trying to explain the 'thickness'.
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/10w-60.doc

In relation to the startup protection of the '10' I originally thought the same but hopefully someone else that's more qualified than me will be able to explain.

 

[loveshandbags]

Why dont you get some 0w-40?

Some A500 drivers did use this in the depths of winter for a very short period - still wouldn't recommend it. But in Cyprus with the warmer climate plus it does not meet the spec - I would not agree with this suggestion.

 

[306maxi]

I thought the same as well but I'm now of the understanding that Fiat specifically developed oil for their engines. 'Off the shelf' there isn't that much available in the 5w40 ACEA C3 oil.

TBH I can't understand why the 1.2 - an old engine - needs the Selenia KPE as opposed to the Selenia K.
The bhp output of the Panda 1.2 at 60bhp and the 500 at 69bhp as already mentioned - tolerances might have got tighter.

I did check out the Selenia web site for more information but it didn't work for me...
http://www.flselenia.co.uk/

I did find a summary explanation off fiat’s own forum and this is how one poster put it…

SELENIA website and amazingly they do a 10W40 for petrol engines
called SELENIA 20K 10w40 for new generation engines...
there is SELENIA K 5W40 for modern petrol engine .i e F.I.R.E .
also SELENIA KPE 5W40 for new petrol, but best for turbo

So is the 1.2 a new petrol engine.

You only need to look at jrkitching's economy figures to see why the 500 might have a different oil specced for it.

 

[306maxi]

Another thing. Aren't 10w50 and 10w60 oils the same regarding start-up protection? I thought the first figure represented viscosity levels on start-up. I've been searching for a 10w50 oil in my country with no luck. I can order through online shops and have it shipped but it will cost me around 70 pounds.

That's more or less correct. But remember that the 50 and 60 are the numbers that make a difference once you're up to temperature....

 

[ahmett]

That's more or less correct. But remember that the 50 and 60 are the numbers that make a difference once you're up to temperature....

How about a 0w-0 for good measure?

 

[loveshandbags]

Another thing. Aren't 10w50 and 10w60 oils the same regarding start-up protection? I thought the first figure represented viscosity levels on start-up. I've been searching for a 10w50 oil in my country with no luck. I can order through online shops and have it shipped but it will cost me around 70 pounds.

If your Abarth 500 is the standard model and is left with the 'standard' boost could you not use 5w40 in the right spec. IMHO this could be a good choice for 'winter' use. What does it say in the A500 handbook ?