Technical Oil Change

[Caravadossi]

You may like to consider the re-badged oils – e.g. Quantum Platinum (Castrol), Unipart (Fuchs), Jet (Fuchs?) … please advise on anymore you’re aware of. I’m running on Selenia WR 5W-40 now after belt etc job – but previously was on Platinum 5W-40 that was C3 compliant. But with the trend towards 5W-30 for economy & after-treatment (DPF/cat) compatibility – I may re-fill with a Fuchs 5W-30 C2, if it comes in Unipart 5L format!

My understanding is that the C specs don’t follow the same pattern as the A & B specs. A B4 is better than a B3 – but a C4 is not necessarily better than a C3. Fuchs literature shows …

C1 > Ford, Mazda
C2 > FIAT, PSA
C3 > BMW, MB, VW
C4 > Renault

Interesting Lubrizol application that allows you to input various specs & check-out the performance envelopes …

http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngineOils/RelativePerformanceToolIntro.html

111122

 

[ahmett]

True, it is C3 certified, but I personally wouldn't use it because of the viscosity. Fiat recommend 5w40. There must be a reason for it.

yeah but lower is better. maybe fiat didnt become advanced enough to accept this one. I think you are allowed to use it no prob as long as its lower than the explained figures instead of higher. Dont forget when fiat published the book it was like 2007 which is now old school. Think about it at that time there was the iphone original. Now we are iphone 4s a big step forward in 4 years!

 

[frupi]

yeah but lower is better. maybe fiat didnt become advanced enough to accept this one. I think you are allowed to use it no prob as long as its lower than the explained figures instead of higher. Dont forget when fiat published the book it was like 2007 which is now old school. Think about it at that time there was the iphone original. Now we are iphone 4s a big step forward in 4 years!

Of course you may be absolutely right, but can you provide written documentation from Fiat that states they will accept a different viscosity oil in their engines from that which is already published? Again if you use a different viscosity oil, albeit ACEA C3 compliant, if your engine goes bang under warranty, will Fiat pay for it?

 

[ahmett]

Of course you may be absolutely right, but can you provide written documentation from Fiat that states they will accept a different viscosity oil in their engines from that which is already published? Again if you use a different viscosity oil, albeit ACEA C3 compliant, if your engine goes bang under warranty, will Fiat pay for it?

You can check this if you want but as long as the oil is better specification then what fiat asks for, then you are good!

 

[frupi]

You can check this if you want but as long as the oil is better specification then what fiat asks for, then you are good!

I'd want it in writing from Fiat, especially with a three year warranty plan in place.

 

[306maxi]

You may like to consider the re-badged oils – e.g. Quantum Platinum (Castrol), Unipart (Fuchs), Jet (Fuchs?) … please advise on anymore you’re aware of. I’m running on Selenia WR 5W-40 now after belt etc job – but previously was on Platinum 5W-40 that was C3 compliant. But with the trend towards 5W-30 for economy & after-treatment (DPF/cat) compatibility – I may re-fill with a Fuchs 5W-30 C2, if it comes in Unipart 5L format!

My understanding is that the C specs don’t follow the same pattern as the A & B specs. A B4 is better than a B3 – but a C4 is not necessarily better than a C3. Fuchs literature shows …

C1 > Ford, Mazda
C2 > FIAT, PSA
C3 > BMW, MB, VW
C4 > Renault

Interesting Lubrizol application that allows you to input various specs & check-out the performance envelopes …

http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngineOils/RelativePerformanceToolIntro.html

111122

That's completely at odds with everything else I've seen on the net (the bit about c2 being a Fiat specific oil)

The tool you've listed directly confirms that in terms of lubrication performance and protection of the engine, C3 is better than C1 and C2 in all but fuel economy. C4 is really a diesel only oil as the only impovement relates to DPF's.

 

[ahmett]

I'd want it in writing from Fiat, especially with a three year warranty plan in place.

Well why dont you give customer services a call then?

 

[frupi]

Well why dont you give customer services a call then?

Ah, no thanks, I'll give that a miss. Judging from the rather poor experience I had sorting out the third year warranty certificate with them, I am afraid they have lost my confidence in their ability to come up with a straight forward answer and solution to anything. Sorry, just a 'personal experience' thing.

 

[bluejohn125]

It seems this thread should become a sticky before a simple query from the OP becomes 30 pages of confusion...

The correct oils are clearly available and have been highlighted, even if you stick with Castrol instead of what's recommended in the handbook. These specifications will become more standard and widely available as small engines all become Euro 4 / 5.

Personally I would not change from 5/40 to 5/30 even if e.g. Total say that their product is equivalent... you are changing the viscosity when the engine is hot and banging down the motorway. But I wouldn't worry about oil not being C3 unless I had a small, fast-spinning turbo. For your bog standard 1.2 8V pootling around day-to-day there should be no problem.

 

[123barney]

'it does not need topping up between services'


are you serious??? I certianly have needed to top up mine between services, to the tune of 2 liters (it was being driven hard and of course it was being run in from new)!

Please check your oil from time to time, both common sense and Fiat tell you to!

I must point out that my annual milage is not much over 3000 a year, ( its not my only vehicle) and I do check my oil levels on a regular basis, but seeing what I have read so far, and the 2 oil services done by my dealer up to now, I would think its too late if the oil they use and reccomend is not the tecnicaly correct type, so where does that leave me? :bang: I suppose I could call in and tell them what I think, but it would be interesting to know what would happen if an engine fault developed, although the car is in its 3rd year of its dealer warranty

 

[RobinPJ]

You can check this if you want but as long as the oil is better specification then what fiat asks for, then you are good!

Are you? A warranty is just a specific form of contract. If it is made conditional on certain conditions being met and maintained, then if you breach those conditions then you do not meet the conditions and so the other party is not liable. This may be the case even if in your virew you have "outperformed" the stipulation.

Say I promise to pay you ten euros if you sing the Spanish national anthem to me, provided you do so at noon tomorrow. You may choose to sing it to me at 11am instead, claiming that that is better as you delivered early. But i would be within my rights not to pay you because you breached the condition.


(This is actually a trick example - there is a prize to the first person who spots what the trick is.)

 

[frupi]

GMT or Euro time?

 

[306maxi]

Are you? A warranty is just a specific form of contract. If it is made conditional on certain conditions being met and maintained, then if you breach those conditions then you do not meet the conditions and so the other party is not liable. This may be the case even if in your virew you have "outperformed" the stipulation.

Say I promise to pay you ten euros if you sing the Spanish national anthem to me, provided you do so at noon tomorrow. You may choose to sing it to me at 11am instead, claiming that that is better as you delivered early. But i would be within my rights not to pay you because you breached the condition.


(This is actually a trick example - there is a prize to the first person who spots what the trick is.)

To be honest I disagree. If the oil is of a better spec then that is fine, it's no different to putting tyres on of a better weight or speed rating and maintaining insurance cover. This is not the same as putting wider tyres on even though you could argue that they're grippier

If your idea was to hold water then it would mean that I'm breaching my warranty by servicing my car early based on time and mileage

 

[306maxi]

GMT or Euro time?

zulu!

 

[frupi]

zulu!

Don't, quite possibly, there will be people who don't know what Zulu time is!

I have plenty of experience of Zulu time!

 

[306maxi]

It seems this thread should become a sticky before a simple query from the OP becomes 30 pages of confusion...

The correct oils are clearly available and have been highlighted, even if you stick with Castrol instead of what's recommended in the handbook. These specifications will become more standard and widely available as small engines all become Euro 4 / 5.

Personally I would not change from 5/40 to 5/30 even if e.g. Total say that their product is equivalent... you are changing the viscosity when the engine is hot and banging down the motorway. But I wouldn't worry about oil not being C3 unless I had a small, fast-spinning turbo. For your bog standard 1.2 8V pootling around day-to-day there should be no problem.

Fiat specify C3 spec oil so that is what you should use. Step down to A3/B4 oil and all you're going to do is burn more fuel.

People seem to think for some reason that just because it's "only" a 1.2 8v that it doesn't need the oil that's been specced for it. The 1.2 8v in a 500 is probably built with different tolerances to the 1.2 8v's that came out in the 90's.

Anyone telling you to put a lower rated lubricant in your car should be willing to reimburse you for the cost of any damage which it does to your car or any loss or performance/fuel economy.......

 

[ahmett]

I must point out that my annual milage is not much over 3000 a year, ( its not my only vehicle) and I do check my oil levels on a regular basis, but seeing what I have read so far, and the 2 oil services done by my dealer up to now, I would think its too late if the oil they use and reccomend is not the tecnicaly correct type, so where does that leave me? :bang: I suppose I could call in and tell them what I think, but it would be interesting to know what would happen if an engine fault developed, although the car is in its 3rd year of its dealer warranty

Dont worry about it you'll be fine. I think we are overanalysing the situation hardcore. The main number to look at is simply the Viscocity. Any further analysis is just a bonus. This thread is good for future oil purchasing, in order to get the absolute best out of the engine. To make damage to your engine you'd have to put salt into the oil reserve = )

 

[iraklas]

I had my first service the other day and the dealer has put 10w60 oil (Helix Ultra racing) in my Abarth 500, instead of 10w50 as specified in the manual, which does not meet the C3 standards. Its the same dealer i bought the car from and since they are offering me a 5 year full warranty i think i'll keep that oil in the engine for the next 6 months.

 

[ahmett]

Are you? A warranty is just a specific form of contract. If it is made conditional on certain conditions being met and maintained, then if you breach those conditions then you do not meet the conditions and so the other party is not liable. This may be the case even if in your virew you have "outperformed" the stipulation.

Say I promise to pay you ten euros if you sing the Spanish national anthem to me, provided you do so at noon tomorrow. You may choose to sing it to me at 11am instead, claiming that that is better as you delivered early. But i would be within my rights not to pay you because you breached the condition.


(This is actually a trick example - there is a prize to the first person who spots what the trick is.)

Just like a lawyer would say. In the end though i think in a court case, the better specs argument would win the day no matter how much arguing is done = ) And each example has its own specific parameters you arent doing better by calling someone earlier than the agreed time, but by putting a better specification oil, you are doing better!

 

[loveshandbags]

I had my first service the other day and the dealer has put 10w60 oil (Helix Ultra racing) in my Abarth 500, instead of 10w50 as specified in the manual, which does not meet the C3 standards. Its the same dealer i bought the car from and since they are offering me a 5 year full warranty i think i'll keep that oil in the engine for the next 6 months.

I did a little reading about that oil last night. IMHO it is too thick. A lot of the A500 drivers use the 5W-40 but some are using the more expensive Abarth 10W-50 if they are esseessed or TMCd. A problem with heavier oil is that it is not giving the initial protection on startup. Probably OK in a racing engine that's flat out but for an everyday car ?