Tuning Newbie with an idea

[AmbitiousButRubbish]

Wow, lots to take in there, thanks!
So which part of the panda computers do I need? I assumed that the windows, radio, etc wouldnt care if the engine is there.
As for actually bolting the motor to the gearbox, its very simple. Think bit of steel, drill holes for the gearbox, drill the holes for the motor, such that the motor shaft and gearbox input shaft line up. I dont think changing gear on the move will be possible with this setup, but when stationary, choosing the gear you want is simple. (Think, you can change gear in a car without pressing the clutch when the engine is off)
A leaf (same as renault EV?) motor is more than powerful enough, and maybe buying half the modules/cells from a crashed EV.
Also, as for heating, old land rovers dont have heaters, so if it needs one, it could be added later. If this goes ahead Ill be sure to keep hold of all the bits. Demisting, Ill use a towel lol

 

[AmbitiousButRubbish]

The panda is actually a very good candidate for an EV I feel, the standard car is slow etc, and the drivetrain doesnt have computers (other than the ECU, which goes in the bin with the engine)

 

[koalar]

I repeat

Go into an EV forum

Plug into there calculators your range and power

Work out the cost of the batteries.

Adding weight means you need more for the same power to weight and range


Lead acid EV aren’t using car batteries


But it all in the calculators

EV and cheap isn’t possible. Not including the small problems such as brake servos

 

[AmbitiousButRubbish]

Will join an EV conversion forum shortly.
In the case of the Panda 4x4, it the 1.4 16v engine an easier swap than an EV conversion?
Thanks!

 

[lunchbeers]

As before, get a 319 Panda 1.3MJ or TwinAir, map it to get 100bhp or thereabouts, this way you get a few more mod cons and a wider track.

Go to a reputable tuner and this is your easiest, and likely cheapest option, you may even notice in respect of the diesel that economy goes up.

You won't ever get a nippy 4x4 which is economical, but the 1.3 is your best bet, and this way you're not having to bugger about with CANBUS issues, mixing and matching ECUs which won't talk to each other or the staggering cost of EV conversion.

Consider the trifector:

1. Cheap.
2. Simple.
3. Good.

You can normally have any 2 of these, but never all 3... The Panda nearly achieves these in standard form.

In all honesty, the TwinAir's 85hp is more than enough for its wallowy handling to cope with, I've just come from a near 300bhp diesel and don't feel short-changed.

I haven't gone back through the two threads on this subject, but have you actually driven any of these yet?

 

[AmbitiousButRubbish]

Nope, not driven any panda. Owned a discovery 1 V8 and an ibiza diesel 1.6, both of which are adequately powerful, but the disco is borderline dangerous in the turns and the ibiza is useless in the wet. The disco also gets 14mpg.
How fast is a remapped 1.3 4x4? I wouldnt want anything much slower than my disco (50mph in 2nd, 80 in 3rd - and it gets through the gears reasonably quickly becasue its a big 3.9 V8)
I did drive a corsa once, I believe it was a 1.2 petrol- it was aweful and I hated everything about it. I cannot think of a single thing I liked about it. The particular one I drove was a 3 door, it was simply horrible, slow, underpowered, cramped, couldnt see out of the back, horrible driving position, not the least bit sporty or fun. Ive sat in a panda 4x4 (the most recent one) it was nice, easy to see out of, and the driving position was excellent for a non-sporty car. Really I only want the power because of how steep it is here and how much of a challange it is to overtake slow stuff, especially with a couple of friends and a few days worth of camping stuff in the car. (This affected the ibiza much more than the disco, it just made the disco less bouncy)

 

[lunchbeers]

Can't comment on a remapped one, but a stock Twinair is a supposed 12.4 sec 0-60, and feels quite a bit faster. According to what I can find, the V8s in the disco were between 10.9 and 11.5 sec, the gearing will be different obviously. Best case scenario it's 0.9 of a second slower to 60.

I also have regular use of a SDV6 Disco 4 with 300hp and it doesn't seem that much quicker than the Panda (and handles much worse).

Before you explore all these options, have a go in one if you can, you might even hate it.

Check out some of the Panda 4x4 vids to see what they're capable of, also check Ignition Media's YT channel, they're tackling increasingly surprising things with a new cross model

 

[mjc506]

If you're wanting to overtake things while loaded up... you're not going to get that with a 1.1, 1.2 or 1.3... But if you're a little more realistic then the standard 4x4 gets itself around fine. Mine gets me around mid Wales quite happily.

 

[AmbitiousButRubbish]

Im quite happy with how the panda 4x4 does offroad. My disco is the 3.9 V8i manual, so its the quickest, its also not got stupid massive tyres, so it accelerates very decently.
When I say overtake stuff, I mean tractors, or old farmers defenders/fourtraks towing tripple axle trailers full of animals. Stuff that does 35-40mph, just about fast enough that you need a nice straight, but not fast enough to just sit behind for ages. The sort of thing that concerns me when I read that it takes 20 or 18 seconds to do 60mph. A twinair is beyond my budget sadly, so its the 2003-2012 (I think?) 1.2 or 1.3, like I say, it doesnt need to be a rocket, but Im wondering if the suzuki ignis 1.5 vvt 4x4 is a better bet. I really like the panda (for some bizzare reason), so I'm hoping it can be made to fit the bill without being unreasonable.

 

[lunchbeers]

Without wanting to be a dick about it, if you haven't the budget for a twinair, you probably haven't the budget to take 2 cars a (100hp and 4x4) to make 1 and then make it work as intended, likely nothing between them will be plug and play, and then you'll have to find someone capable of making your non-matching computers talk to each other nicely.

It's a nice thought, but if it were easy, it'd be a popular choice - I did see an Italian video about a 4x4 with the 1.4 T-Jet making around 200hp, but my Italian is nowhere near good enough to understand what they're saying, nor does it go into, or even show any technical details.

Another point to contend with is you mention is a couple of you, plus camping gear, it's not a car I'd load up with people and gear for a far-flung weekend away, it's just not big enough to be comfortable for great distances, particularly for any passenger (unless they're small kids).

Haven't any experience.of the Ignis, but basic specs (assume the 2000-2006 version?) Would suggest it has near 100hp and a 0-60 of a shade over 10 secs.


Would a CR-V or something not suffice?

 

[Cinq999]

If you want 50 in 2nd and 80 in 3rd, apart from anything else you'd need a new gearbox.....standard ratios in the MJ wouldn't do it.

Unfortunately there's no cheap way to do a proper job.

The 1.3 MJ can get up to 140hp relatively easily, but not cheaply, budget at least £2-3k.

1.4 16v conversion can be done, but IMHO, for the cost and effort, you'll not be gaining enough to make it worthwhile.

Fit a 1.4 T-jet, then it'd be worthwhile, but expect to spend thousands (I'm 3/4 way through a T-jet conversion in a Cinquecento, and ECU alone cost me £1200).

Plus the cost of uprating suspension, brakes, gearbox, wheels/tyres.

Everything is doable, but not cheap!

 

[koalar]

Without wanting to be a dick about it, if you haven't the budget for a twinair, you probably haven't the budget to take 2 cars a (100hp and 4x4) to make 1 and then make it work as intended, likely nothing between them will be plug and play, and then you'll have to find someone capable of making your non-matching computers talk to each other nicely.

It's a nice thought, but if it were easy, it'd be a popular choice - I did see an Italian video about a 4x4 with the 1.4 T-Jet making around 200hp, but my Italian is nowhere near good enough to understand what they're saying, nor does it go into, or even show any technical details.

Another point to contend with is you mention is a couple of you, plus camping gear, it's not a car I'd load up with people and gear for a far-flung weekend away, it's just not big enough to be comfortable for great distances, particularly for any passenger (unless they're small kids).

Haven't any experience.of the Ignis, but basic specs (assume the 2000-2006 version?) Would suggest it has near 100hp and a 0-60 of a shade over 10 secs.


Would a CR-V or something not suffice?

correct
little budget and big plans
leads to either
none starter or abandoned project most of the time

There aren't any cheap and simple options

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[mj2k]

correct
little budget and big plans
leads to either
none starter or abandoned project most of the time

There aren't any cheap and simple options

Agreed, maybe it's something we all have to learn the hard way, but been there, done that in my mid-20s. I wanted a fast, practical classic car but didn't have the budget. I spotted a BMW 2002 touring with plenty of filler, paintwork by B&Q, interior by a tramp, and a blown engine. "That will make a perfect Tii" thought I (though it wasn't available in the UK, the BMW 2002 Tii Touring was the world's first GTi hot hatch, beating the Golf GTi to the punch by 3 years).

6 months down the line I'd taken it back to a bare shell (getting the engine out without a hoist took days, and was a good job I didn't need it since I dropped it on the road), fabricated / welded in panels for the rotted sills / inner wings, and sourced a replacement tailgate / interior. But didn't have the money for a new set of front suspension bushes, let alone the replacement engine, so it sat there in the garage, bare shell in rattle can primer. Fast forward a few months - it hadn't progressed any further, and I was starting to forget where bits went...

Bye bye BMW...

 

[DaveMcT]

It's a nice thought, but if it were easy, it'd be a popular choice - I did see an Italian video about a 4x4 with the 1.4 T-Jet making around 200hp, but my Italian is nowhere near good enough to understand what they're saying, nor does it go into, or even show any technical details.

A FF member put a Punto T-Jet into a 100HP. Another turbocharged a 100HP. IIRC the engine warning light was on permanently but dig around and you'll find the projects to judge for yourself.

 

[lunchbeers]

I've seen the T-Jet 100hp on track, seemed a good project, but never read into it, this Italian one I saw is the first Iceseenwhere someone's done the 4x4 drivetrain

 

[AmbitiousButRubbish]

Budget - I suspect you may be correct, I did some quick maths of 2k for a 4x4, 2k for a 100hp, stick them together and hopefully get at least 1k back for the leftover parts, so a total of 3k.
Panda being big enough for camping, its not regularly fully loaded, but I'm young and so are my friends, so we can all pile into a small car.
CR-V. Yawn.
Gearing- That was just an example to try and show how grunty the disco is. I wouldnt want tall gearing in a panda because it doesnt have a transfer box for low range, so 1st has to be very short.
So is a panda 4x4 is just destined to be very slow?

 

[lunchbeers]

Point taken about the CR-V, just a better all rounder, more power and likely to get newer/better equipped for the money, plus they regularly rack up massive mileages...

if you go for the earlier 312 (>2012) Panda, then yep it'll be slow.

 

[jrkitching]

There aren't any cheap and simple options

Certainly not when it comes to going electric. I'd have thought a professional EV conversion on a 4x4 Panda would cost you somewhere around £40k-£50k.

If you're shopping for either a 100HP or a 4x4 with a £2k budget, in the current used car market, you'd be lucky to find anything better than a worn out heap of junk.

If I'd got £3k to spend, I'd be looking at one of the last of the 60HP Euro 4 Dynamic Eco's; that budget should get you a really good low mileage well cared for example and, importantly, the common failure parts won't cost you an arm and a leg, so if you're maintaining it yourself, you should get a few more years economical motoring out of it. Buy a 4x4/100HP and find you need a new rear beam in a year or two (not at all uncommon), and you'll be paying well north of £1000 even for a decent used part; for a 1.2, you can get a brand new one delivered for under £150.

And for the younger/less experienced driver, there's another bonus - the insurance will be about as cheap as it gets, too.

 

[AmbitiousButRubbish]

Whats the rear beam? Do you mean the beam axle?
Insurance can be really weird. All the pandas are very cheap to insure, but none are cheaper than a 2ton 4x4 with awful steering and appalling brakes with a 3.9 V8 and a center of gravity higher than snoop dogg. Litterally a disaster waiting to happen, so you'de think.

 

[koalar]

Whats the rear beam? Do you mean the beam axle?
Insurance can be really weird. All the pandas are very cheap to insure, but none are cheaper than a 2ton 4x4 with awful steering and appalling brakes with a 3.9 V8 and a center of gravity higher than snoop dogg. Litterally a disaster waiting to happen, so you'de think.

yes
comes under several names. 2wd with drum brakes are cheap as chips


the 4x4 use a subframe that are starting to see rot and fairly hard to find.