General New project

[Scotchgitt]

Bought a wee 2010 500c multijet non starter

Turns over fine
Mes only shows a cylinder 3 glow plug error and when cleared it comes back on cranking

Have put a jumplead earth to the engine but still nothing

I did find a break in the intake pipe (see pic) the wee pipe coming off is totally off, could this stop it from starting? Sorry not sure the name of some of the parts on deisel engines

Im going to take this pipe off and clean and glue it back together. And change the glow
Plugs and fit a good earth

 

[Scotchgitt]

I’m new to playing with deisels

This is a 1 owner full service history car but I bought it blind from auction

So I’ve
checked the earth and used jump leads
fixed the breather pipe on the intake
changed the battery
Sprayed in easy start
Taken the full pipes of at right hand side of engine 1 at a time. Turned on ignition and deisel poured out
Captured the fuel and checked it wasn’t petrol
Checked oil level in sump

Next is to check compression is this done buy taking out injectors or can it be done through glow plug holes when I change them?

Can I use mes to check other Paramus? Fuel presssures etc

Mes says engine in start state?

Pic of fuel pipes I unplugged both with wee green pushing bits

 

[Scotchgitt]

Anyone able to give any help?

Ive searched and read many threads and atleast i found out this is the 04/2010 change to the 1.3 engine

 

[steveras57]

Be nice if some one out there has some answer or help for ya! might have to wait a while as the diesel 1.3 is less well known than the basic 1.2 petrol and they are few and far between out there !.
I dont know if the same motor was used in other cars but knowing Fiat its probably likely! so a little patience and some other members will likely chip in with answers and opinions! wish you luck with sorting it as i have driven one and in some ways its a nicer engine than the 1.2 in as much as its got a good deal more low down torque(pulling power!) and also runs different gearing so longer journeys and motorways are more relaxed as the car revs lower for any given road speed + you have the benefits of diesel economy which is excellent and even cheaper road tax than the 1.2!.
let us all know how you get on!.

 

[Scotchgitt]

Be nice if some one out there has some answer or help for ya! might have to wait a while as the diesel 1.3 is less well known than the basic 1.2 petrol and they are few and far between out there !.
I dont know if the same motor was used in other cars but knowing Fiat its probably likely! so a little patience and some other members will likely chip in with answers and opinions! wish you luck with sorting it as i have driven one and in some ways its a nicer engine than the 1.2 in as much as its got a good deal more low down torque(pulling power!) and also runs different gearing so longer journeys and motorways are more relaxed as the car revs lower for any given road speed + you have the benefits of diesel economy which is excellent and even cheaper road tax than the 1.2!.
let us all know how you get on!.

Thank for the reply, normally folk are very quick with very detailed things to try

Yeh many folks used this engine I think. Vauxhall, Citroen Peugeot

 

[Scotchgitt]

Went back out again to check different settings in mes and take a couple of videos

Got an extra error code this time

Camshaft sensor p0340-15 - so will pick one up tomorrow along with glow plugs

Also set some parameters up and found when I select fuel pressure expected it was 0 but turn off ignition it goes up to 372, when cranking it stays at 0 , is that because the camshaft error so it wont put fuel across so changes value to 0

Also says my particle filter is clogged 184% , does that stop it starting? , I would think it would allow it to start but flag it for regen or limp mode

Revs go up to about 275 on cranking

I’ve added a video of the dash when I crank it

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi,

I'm on my 4th of these motors,

It is VERY common

In vans, panda, punto 500 mpv's the lot, and 9 different manufacturers

Ok, on this forum not many "hands on" 500 owners

The Panda section has LOTS..

I Am a little taken aback that "Easystart" did very little...

Common'ish fuel supply issues are diagnosed by LOW rail pressure..

IT SHOULD BE MASSIVE..,!

However an aerosol spray should bypass that..


So..

Does the valve train move as expected..? Chain issues are NOT unheard of..

 

[varesecrazy]

There was a thread with a similar age panda mj, doing similar for it's owner in the Central Belt

It centred around fuel supply and chasing contamination,

Search should find it

 

[Scotchgitt]

Hi,

I'm on my 4th of these motors,

It is VERY common

In vans, panda, punto 500 mpv's the lot, and 9 different manufacturers

Ok, on this forum not many "hands on" 500 owners

The Panda section has LOTS..

I Am a little taken aback that "Easystart" did very little...

Common'ish fuel supply issues are diagnosed by LOW rail pressure..

IT SHOULD BE MASSIVE..,!

However an aerosol spray should bypass that..


So..

Does the valve train move as expected..? Chain issues are NOT unheard of..

Thanks for the info, can i see the chain gear when i take out the cam sensor or do i need to take off the rocker

And you say fuel rail pressure is that the 372 desire value mes shows?

Thanks

 

[Scotchgitt]

There was a thread with a similar age panda mj, doing similar for it's owner in the Central Belt

It centred around fuel supply and chasing contamination,

Search should find it

I found a panda thread “

Troubleshooting diesel cranking but no start​

So currently reading through that thanks

It mentions a timing port on the rear cam where the chain can be checked

Thanks

 

[varesecrazy]

Your rail pressure.. It rises with motor speed

@250 bar at cranking speed

When running it will be Thousands

That's why sometimes towstarting can be used to get a motor running that has a dead starter.

To me.. your problem is NOT just fuelling

 

[Scotchgitt]

Your rail pressure.. It rises with motor speed

@250 bar at cranking speed

When running it will be Thousands

That's why sometimes towstarting can be used to get a motor running that has a dead starter.

To me.. your problem is NOT just fuelling

So once I’ve checked the chain is turning the cams and checked for compression I will report back

 

[Scotchgitt]

I took the wee breather off ar the top of the rear cam and looked in , put car in 5th , jacked up driver front wheel, turned wheel and nothing in the hole moved

Took out cam sensor and again turned the wheel and nothing moved

Im guessing chain may be broken

So im going to strip the covers off timing chain side

 

[steveras57]

I took the wee breather off ar the top of the rear cam and looked in , put car in 5th , jacked up driver front wheel, turned wheel and nothing in the hole moved

Took out cam sensor and again turned the wheel and nothing moved

Im guessing chain may be broken

So im going to strip the covers off timing chain side

Crikey!! are these known for cam chains snapping then? never heard of a chain snapping in any other car in over 30 years!
Is it very small and relatively weak? and are there tensioner issues as well, can you get a heavy duty replacement! sounds like it aint been particularly well looked after ! wrong oil and skimped servicing ? sure hope you can sort it though seams like a lot of work!

 

[Scotchgitt]

Well

Took the timing chain side off the engine, who knew the stuck crank pulling main bolt was a left handed thread. Took welding a nut on to it to heat it and give more torque than the t18 torx

Chain was snapped , guides were intact and no debris in the sump

So next question is will the head / valves be ok.what checks can I do

 

[jrkitching]

Crikey!! are these known for cam chains snapping then

Yes, it's not unusual to see posts here from folks who've had cam chains snap in the diesels. By contrast, we almost never hear of belts breaking in the petrols; quite the opposite of what you'd think unless you were familiar with these engines.

Do have a look in the Panda section; there are real-world stories of engines having been rebuilt after such breakages.

The impression I get is that it's not as straightforward as you might think, and the viability of repairing this on a 15yr old car is marginal even if you don't cost the labour. Unless you can do all the work yourself, I'd suggest you just sell it for scrap.

The job will be much easier with the engine out of the car, but you have to offset this against the additional work involved in removing it.

 

[Scotchgitt]

The chain is very thin the side plates making up the chain are half the thickness of a standard bike chain

I will have a rumage through the panda section thanks

 

[jrkitching]

The chain is very thin the side plates making up the chain are half the thickness of a standard bike chain

Yes; IMO it's not really fit for purpose. Even so, 69k is a low mileage for this to happen; one wonder what the actual oil service history of this car was (as opposed to what the paperwork says it was). Regular oil changes with a good quality oil are just about the only thing an owner can do to preserve the camchain, short of periodic replacement.

And we've also seen more than a few posts from folks who've had catastrophic failures just after a precautionary camchain replacement!

 

[jrkitching]

I will have a rumage through the panda section thanks

Start with this thread.

 

[Scotchgitt]

Fitted new chain kit and rockers but where is the hole for the crank locking tool