General New Panda Parent

[PandaParent]

Good day all,

I helped my son purchase a used Fiat Panda last week and whilst he is enjoying the freedom that a car gives I'm looking to sort out a few niggles / issues. I'm aiming to use the search function but thought I'd list the key areas incase one of you has a shortcut to an existing thread or can shed a view, opinion and comment on a way forward.

The car is a 59 plate yellow Panda Eco Active with circa 65k miles. I didn't want to spoil him with air conditioning, folding rear seats, etc and to be honest I need it to be as simple / low costs as possible as I'm carrying the cost load whilst he undertakes uni studies. By the looks of it hasn't been overly 'loved' but considering I paid circa £1k I'm up for a bit of R&R for the little car. Issues list so far:

1. It only came with one key (Black with the number 2 stamped on it. So my first job is to get a spare. I've heard horror stories of the cost so would welcome any tips. I've contacted a company that advertise in the forum (Essex) and asked them for a quote and I'm visiting the local Fiat dealer so I can scare myself with the quote from them
2. Believe it or not but I just noticed this morning (by change I'm embarrassed to say) that the car has one tyre that is a different size from the rest! Three of them are the 155/80/13 however one is a 165/70/13 so job one is to replace that. Initial research suggests that it is illegal and will fail and MOT (which is due in Aug)
3. No cambelt change record and the owner I bought it from (second owner) hadn't any record of a change. I'm aiming to price parts from Eurocar and Parts for less (or similar that was recommended on here - I think we're looking at £50 or less for a kit which includes belt and ancilliaries). There were various brands so I'm clueless (& not overly mechanically minded) on which one to buy. Intent is to get a local garage to fit it - If anyone is Bristol based I'd welcome a recommendation of Fiat specialist we can use.
4. No locking fuel cap, got the details and cost from the forum (thanks) and will order one up
5. I noticed the rear springs were quite rusty looking and the last MOT had it listed as an advisory. Again wondering if its worth getting them replaced as we're aiming to hold on to it for a few years. There isn't any obvious failure signs so do we just run on with them? The previous owner had just changed the dampers on the rear.
6. Paint fade! Certain panels are different shade of yellow and I'm 'hoping' its fade and whilst I did an HPI check I suppose at the price point I'm on if it had a bump then the previous owner could have just replaced parts (used). There isn't anything sinister (rust, misalignment of panels) but I accept it could be repairs or simply paint fade,...

Well that's my initial list and I'm likely to find more but hey ho. With regards to the little car, I really like the boxy shape of it and it makes a change to the usual fiesta / corsa etc that the friends of my son drive.

Well sorry for the verbose first post but I'm looking forward to interacting with you all

Regards, Kevin

 

[Goudrons]

Your engine is non interference, so don't sweat the cam belt change yet.
Even if it does let go, the pistons and valves don't share the same space, so it's safe.
I've ran these engines in various Fiats since the mid 80's and never changed a belt yet, though Gates tend to be the go to part for cam belts.

Locking fuel caps are a luxury item for Pandas, try Ebay I think they are the same as 500's.
(sore point this as I noticed someone nicked my alloy Abarth cap this morning, thievin' feckers)

Springs do tend to rust up, but they are a simple fix, more important is the rear axle. It can rot quite badly, the spring seats are most prone.
A new axle will virtually write the car off and used are usually in a similar state.

If it's in good nic, plan on keeping it that way with a clean up and some paint.
Better still would be a grit blast it back to clean metal and underseal or hammerite it.

If it's really bad and you are desperate, a later model Panda/500 one will fit, kind of.
The track is around 50mm wider, someone on here has gone down this route already, so you should be able to find more info on it if needed.

Depending on how bad the paint fade is and how troublesome it is to you, but you could try getting it professionally mopped.
A body shop should be able to cut the dull paint back with various cutting compounds and a special dual action mopping machine.

I've had some good results with this in the past, particularly with brighter coloured cars, but I wouldn't really pay for it unless it was really worth it.

With a bit of care, it should last a while and give some trouble freeish motoring.
Bonus with them is this site, it's a treasure chest of information and help is almost guaranteed.

 

[PandaParent]

Thx Goudrons. I had to get a new rear tyre this morning as highlighted in my first post and yes I did notice the spring and axle were pretty rusty. I couldn’t see any obvious holes in the axle so I think in the first instance I’ll attack it with a wire brush and coat with under seal? It did look bloomin rusty tho,...cheers for your comprehensive response though! Kevin.

 

[portland_bill]

The rear axle spring pans rust through, or fall off the axle beam, so pay particular attention to those areas.

If you're the third owner, there may still be a chance to find the original 'lost' key.
Have you asked the seller? If they never had it, the original owner probably still has it in a drawer. Their name was on the V5, but you may have missed that, but the service book may show them. Ask the seller who they got it from.

If you can find the original owner, send them a pre-paid jiffy bag and ask if they can find it. If all they have to do is seal it in and post it, you have a good chance of a result. If you expect them to go to a post office and weigh it and post it, few will bother. You could knock the front door, but most will not appreciate the pressure.

Having spent some time in the trade, so many owners only ever use one key. The spare is dropped in a drawer the day they take the car home, never to be thought about again. At trade-in, it never crosses their mind. I've known one customer with a key for every car they'd owned for 20 years, having changed yearly! The garage I worked at would occasionally send customers home to fetch the spare before we'd let them have their new car.

 

[varesecrazy]

My latest V5 doesnt appear to show previous owner details..

The world is changing..

 

[tonyn]

Kev,
Having owned and worked on 3 pandas, I followed the Portland bill tip re the second key and that paid off for me, but i have also had one cloned and cut at my local Timpsons, think it was in the region of £50, but that was a few years back.
I have just changed the rear springs on my 2004 1.1 Actice, got them from ebay, eBay item number: 122864760463, 18mm nut on the bottom rear shocks.


Hope this helps,
Tony

 

[chris3234]

The rear axle spring pans rust through, or fall off the axle beam, so pay particular attention to those areas.

If you're the third owner, there may still be a chance to find the original 'lost' key.
Have you asked the seller? If they never had it, the original owner probably still has it in a drawer. Their name was on the V5, but you may have missed that, but the service book may show them. Ask the seller who they got it from.

If you can find the original owner, send them a pre-paid jiffy bag and ask if they can find it. If all they have to do is seal it in and post it, you have a good chance of a result. If you expect them to go to a post office and weigh it and post it, few will bother. You could knock the front door, but most will not appreciate the pressure.

Having spent some time in the trade, so many owners only ever use one key. The spare is dropped in a drawer the day they take the car home, never to be thought about again. At trade-in, it never crosses their mind. I've known one customer with a key for every car they'd owned for 20 years, having changed yearly! The garage I worked at would occasionally send customers home to fetch the spare before we'd let them have their new car.

Thing everywhere should do that or else Knock the cost of a replacement off the value of the car

 

[DaveMcT]

My 2007 Panda 1.2 has a 2015 Fiat 500 rear axle. It's wider than the Panda axle but has an anti roll bar and softer springs so the car rides better. There are no wheel/wheel arch issues with standard 1.2 wheels.

I got the complete axle with springs, shocks, hubs and everything on it for a straight swap for £150. Use the rubber spring seats at both ends of the road springs. It's a DIY job to swap the whole axle and solved an otherwise expensive ongoing problem.

I have not yet measured the 100HP for a similar mod but suspect it won't work with the wider wheels.

 

[PandaParent]

Car in for MoT tomorrow, son worried his new best pal will meet its maker,......more to follow ?

 

[PandaParent]

Whooo passed MOT with no advisories!

 

[DaveMcT]

To confirm the 100HP WILL NOT accommodate a standard later model Fiat 500 rear axle. The axle will bolt on just fine, but the wider wheels would put the tyres outside the wheel arches and would almost certainly hit the arch on full bump.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

My 2007 Panda 1.2 has a 2015 Fiat 500 rear axle. It's wider than the Panda axle but has an anti roll bar and softer springs so the car rides better. There are no wheel/wheel arch issues with standard 1.2 wheels.

I got the complete axle with springs, shocks, hubs and everything on it for a straight swap for £150. Use the rubber spring seats at both ends of the road springs. It's a DIY job to swap the whole axle and solved an otherwise expensive ongoing problem.

I have not yet measured the 100HP for a similar mod but suspect it won't work with the wider wheels.

I'm intrigued by the idea of substituting a 500 rear axle into a Panda (mine's ok at this time but in the future? - you never know).

From an engineering point of view it all looks very sensible but does anyone know how the insurance companys view this "non standard" modification? They can be very funny about these things, can't they?

 

[DaveMcT]

I'm intrigued by the idea of substituting a 500 rear axle into a Panda (mine's ok at this time but in the future? - you never know).

From an engineering point of view it all looks very sensible but does anyone know how the insurance company's view this "non standard" modification? They can be very funny about these things, can't they?

My attitude is it's a totally standard Fiat part used as a straight swap for the original rusty axle.

 

[JimTee]

What are your thoughts on using Waxoyl on the rear axle and springs?

 

[portland_bill]

What are your thoughts on using Waxoyl on the rear axle and springs?

Should work well. Flexible and creeps to fill any damage if hit by stones. Careful to keep it out of the brakes if spraying it on. A lot easier than cleaning and painting, but a bit messier.

 

[DaveMcT]

Should work well. Flexible and creeps to fill any damage if hit by stones. Careful to keep it out of the brakes if spraying it on. A lot easier than cleaning and painting, but a bit messier.

Even in summer Waxoyl is better thinned so it can soak into the metal surface.

However, I used it underside of my 1970s Suzuki mudguards back around 2008. They had a surface rust more like heavy tarnish. The bike has been garage stored ever since and cleaned up recently. The corrosion was worse though thankfully not serious. Bear in mind the bike was dry stored in all that time. If Waxoyl was all it's cracked up to be the corrosion would have been stopped. Some areas was brushed over with chain saw oil (thinned with white spirit) which polymerises into a soft goo. Those parts remained as clean under the goo as they were 10 years ago.

On the 100HP my plan is to remove the axle and have it zinc hot metal sprayed. It's not costly and almost as effective as dipped galvanising without the mess and hassle. Axle removal is a surprisingly easy job for a DIY mechanic. I took off the mounting plates (three bolts each side) and allows the axle to be lowered gently on to a jack.

Why would I go to seemingly so much trouble? The old paint (what there ever was of it) has flaked and failed leaving areas that need to be properly cleaned. Doing that under the car is a nasty job. It's far easier to remove the axle and do it off the car. Going that far - might as well have it done professionally.

 

[portland_bill]

I think waxoyl is supposed to be reapplied every few years to keep it supple. Presumably the solvents dry out.

 

[chris3234]

Even with waxoil you should t clean the surface up as best you can or else the rust will continue underneath the flaking rust

 

[DaveMcT]

Even with waxoil you should clean the surface up as best you can or else the rust will continue underneath the flaking rust

The spring support pans, damper mounts and any small brackets are the real problem areas. On the spring pans, stress 20 to 30mm away from the welds causes more rapid corrosion and of course where the springs rub metal to metal.

I decided the additional work involved with taking the axle off was not that much compared to the horrible job of working under the car to clean flaking paint and rust away. Even with proper PPI (goggles etc) you will get some nasty cr*p in your face or worse. A jet wash with it off the car was a doddle.

For better access (at the very least) remove the dampers (shocks) and springs then drop the axle down. After pressure washing, chip away any remaining flaking rust and spray on a coat of water dispersing product. Waxoyl alone is supposed to do the job but I'm not convinced it soaks in well enough.

XCP gets a very good review from a properly technical test. https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/products/the-best-motorcycle-corrosion-protectants

On a car axle, all of these would need something oil compatible over the top. Waxoyl should be as good as anything else. It will be messy.

On my classic bike parts (pressed steel seat pan for example) the rust was so bad I could never adequately remove it all. I had it grit blasted and hot zinc metal sprayed. Finally primed and painted. It's effectively galvanised.

The plan is to do the same on the 100HP rear axle. It will cost a bit more but it's a one time job.