Technical Mild Hybrid owners - what’s it like?

[boozyjay]

If you drive slower in a TA you'll have better economy, same as any car, Again, you're over thinking things. The TA is economical, but if you are worried about the MPG on that, then I don't think you'll end up buying anything.

Good luck selling the Avensis, if it sells quickly, you may have a chance of getting the Motorpoint one.

 

[timmycm850]

ps. In the hybrid I can do a 70mile commute by careful driving and only use 4.5 litres of fuel so yes I can with care get 70mpg. Same commute. 0.9 twin is about 45mpg and the 1.2 is max 58mpg.

Yes the hybrid is best by quite some way if you put the effort in.

Tim

 

[SB1500]

So... there are many manufacturers doing mild hybrids whilst driving them through manual gearboxes to tick some boxes and give a low cost option(£300)compared to full hybrid(£4k).

We've had
2005 1.2 petrol panda 60hp
2013 1.2 petrol panda 69hp vvc
2021 1.0 mild hybrid sport red
My mother has 0.9 4x4panda 85hp 2014.
My brother has 1.4 100hp 2007.

So I feel I'm quite versed on the differences.

Your main choices are 1.2 69hp upto 2021, 0.9twin upto 2021. 1.0 hybrid from 2021.

Below is based upon mixed driving

The 1.2 69hp will give fair to good economy 43 to 45mpg however driven all day long and with an oil change every year and belt when appropriate and likely to have aircon. Its going to have drum rear brakes for simplicity. Motoring Joy and if you find one before 2017march its super cheap roadtax.
The 0.9 85hp will be quite fun with the turbo output, they often are higher spec in the trimming and options fitments probably have phone connectivity blue and me. With the 4x4 I get 40 to 42mpg but its likely to have those noisy rear disc brakes.
The 1.0 hybrid Is just a bigger alternator and a battery pack under the passenger seat and a 30kmh and below start stop system. They can be absolutely driven like a regular manual car and will give about 5% more economy 46 to 48mpg(than the 1.2 engine it replaced). However if you feel you wish to engage with the system (Takes about 2 weeks driving to workout how to get the best out of it)You can get more E braking recharge/regen, you can care for more pedestrians as you drive in busy areas by using the start stop system even while moving upto 30kmh. The 3 cylinder hybrid sport we have seems to have a sports exhaust so when being revved over 4k seems to sound like a V6. Basically you can drive it like a 1.2 or if you wish you can push it and have some fun but not doing silly speeds. The engine loosens up at about 8k miles but before this 6th gear seems long ( you may need to go into 5th on long motorway hills).
I would rate the hybrid as the one you will likely hold onto longer if you go for a hybrid sport after July 2021 when android auto/apple carplay became standard fitment but invest in a set of 16 inch Abarth 500 painted wheels with winter tyres on the protect the diamond cut alloys from winter salt. The 3 cylinder engine is very quiet at motorway speeds.

We specced ours up with red paint, heated screen and seats. thermostatic heater and aircan. Parking sensors and even a spare wheel. But sadly ours is pre standard fit of the carplay/android system.

In conclusion search out a black/white/metalic silver hybrid sport after July 2021 and see if you can do a long test drive but protect those alloy wheels.


Have Fun.

Tim Milnes

That is an excellent insightful post to my options!!! (Although every reply so far has also helped, even contrasting views)

Each of the choices seem to have enough fans. And enough benefits to make up for any kind of lack. I had the old and new 1.2 as well and I'd be happy with either.

It sounds like I can't go wrong, and that makes me happy enough to know. So that other things like condition, price, options can be a deciding factor then. Seems there is no 'one to avoid'.

I priced up (using Shop4Parts) the genuine filters / oils for all three. Barely much difference, very affordable.

1.2: £90
TwinAir: £100
Hybrid: £100

The Sport trim looks stunning. Sad it was short lived. The alloys and (matt?) paint though would be hard to maintain - as stunning as they look.

The CarPlay / Android Auto screen is a bonus, and I think most of these come with the climate control. I'd love both. However.. an A/C and phone dock integrated into dash is just as good to me as I found my iPhone with the larger screen always a pleasant fairly suitable sat-nav and music machine - nearly as good as CarPlay. And THEN, last night, I realised even models without that would be fine - as I could fit a Sony / Pioneer single DIN CarPlay unit - even on a car without steering wheel controls (previously a must have) as it would be so high / close at hand for the occasional bit of input.

The longer I look into it, the longer I'm finding that most models would be able to do the job. Though some with a bit more DIY work, but I'm no stranger to that at this point and if anything, expect a fresher Panda to be much more straightforward than the other cars to work with.

I was even seeking out models with heated seats - but that really narrows down choice. Some on here said they're not the best / speed or heat. But now I'm happy to fit them myself.

This one for sale now is quite fresh - I was looking at it in person on Friday but at the time, dismissed it with no steering controls nor Lounge spec. https://www.donnellygroup.co.uk/used-cars/16547205-fiat-panda-1.2-easy-5dr/

I think even that I could fit with a CarPlay unit, tinted windows, heated seats and rubber mats, and then it'd be comfortable enough and with all the most modern tech I'd ever ask for. Sounds like a lot... but it's not too much really.

The sticking point right now.. Avensis sale. But that does give me weeks if not more, to make sure this is a choice I'll not regret.

My uncle (who I usually consult on all things car) did say that at this point, just get the Panda and even if it turns out to not be the right choice, can always trade it in - in other words, no decision is life binding or irreversible - so I can't go too far wrong.

I think it says a lot that I've experience quite different cars and the Panda still is on my mind! haha

 

[boozyjay]

That 1.2 Easy looks very tidy.

 

[SB1500]

That 1.2 Easy looks very tidy.

It really did. I was up there on Friday looking for Abarths, that caught my eye. And peering into it immediately gave me the impression that that busy centre bit of the dash was pristine. Soon as I spotted the missing steering controls though I moved on...

However, something along these lines would take care of the old radio. And also, should I sell the car down the line - even years - it can be removed and sold on to someone else running an older car who wants the same functionality to recover most of the cost.

 

[Marcus Daly]

I was even seeking out models with heated seats - but that really narrows down choice. Some on here said they're not the best / speed or heat. But now I'm happy to fit them myself.

The heated seats are fine. They get hot enough, quickly enough. The only minor issue with them is that only the seat base is heated, not the seat back, which after so many cars with both seems a bit weird.

One other advantage of a Panda with heated seats is that it almost certainly also has the quick clear heated front windscreen, as both were part of the "winter pack".

 

[varesecrazy]

T 850.. How is the drive with the hybrid though?

Midway between the Fire and Twinair??

I find our 1242cc 500 is OK..
Obviously tractable and smooth...
But look for an eco button to liven it up on a regular basis and the Mpg is only OK

MID 50's takes work
Panda is usually @56
The punto has a lifetime of 52.. Over 70K

Comparing to the 1248cc mj's..
They are all poor for both mpg and absolute driveability

However the Twinair only really loses out on lack of low rpm torque..

And they are FUNwhen required


@SB1500 needs to drive a few

 

[Jerseywurzel]

I just changed from a 1.2 lounge to a 1.0 hybrid. I'm not up on technical stuff so this is a non tech review.

1.2 had all the extras; heated windscreen and seats, spare wheel, the auto braking thing in the windscreen. Got around 55-60 mpg over 4.5 years, drove well and I liked it.

1.0 looks the biz but lacks the above extras, but does have climate control which was nice on a long drive. Around town, its definitely nipper than the 1.2. On a long drive, especially going uphill, lacks the power and had to drop down a gear to two to keep momentum
Only done 5000 miles so only getting 45-50mpg but hoping that will improve.

Conclusion, the hybrid is better around town, the 1.2 on longer journeys. That's not to say the hybrid can't do longer journeys, it was quiet and comfortable. Just lacks power at speed.

 

[timmycm850]

Yes the hybrid is nipper around town as it regens when you slow down and tops up the hybrid battery and it gives back when you pull away and launch( basically it fills the horrible gap found on most makes of non turbo euro6 engines). Once you are upto motorway speeds you have used the hybrid energy so unless you regen by Slowing you are only running on the ICE, it makes a great noise though. Most 1.2 only have 5 speed boxes so adding 6th speed onto an engine 200cc less can make it more easy to be caught out by long motorway hills in the wrong gear(just change down gear if you need to its an Italian engine so let it rev). You can be REALLY economical on flat A and B Roads at very low revs at 35 to 50 mph as you have much less wind resistance.

You do have to get to know the hybrids.

I really rate the fire engine in all its developments since Mid 80s and i think we will all appreciate the firefly hybrid in a similar way when we all begin to realise how quiet and detached electric cars( with no engine noise) are going to be in the future

Tim

 

[timmycm850]

A stoneacre fiat dealer on autotrader.co.uk currently has a regular metalic silver 1.0 hybrid Sport 2020 with 28k on the clock up for grabs at just under £9800. Mist other ones are £11500 upwards but no more mileage than about 10k.

Not sure on your thoughts of buying in the UK.

TIM

 

[SB1500]

Not sure on your thoughts of buying in the UK

I’d go to the mainland to buy if I had to. I did this in 2019 at Motorpoing in Glasgow to collect a Panda

 

[varesecrazy]

I’d go to the mainland to buy if I had to. I did this in 2019 at Motorpoing in Glasgow to collect a Panda

I'm old.. I know .


Due to 'ancientness'.. I also know the Brasil developed "Firefly" series that were destined to replace Fire motors. We're supposedly 'adaptable'
3 or 4 cylinders. Of @300 cc each

So circa 1000cc and circa 1200 cc. WITH A TURBO OPTION

Are we Only discussing a 1000 turbo?

I'm not in the market.. So have not looked at one But I opted for the "known quantity" 1242cc Fire in my 2018 used purchase.. It's not great... But is simple
Plan to do 60k in 5years and then worry

It cost £6k.. So won't owe me much

 

[AB100]

In other news, a major deal in Nottingham is selling a nice City Cross with optional twinair engine and 4WD. Check the rear disks and the 4wd twiddly thing inside.

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[boozyjay]

They look nice in white and that one should have DAB as standard as it's 2020 model year.

 

[vexorg]

Do the bigger Mercs have Mercedes diesels? I know the 1.5 is a Renault, heard bad things about the A-Class with those.

The renault 1.5 diesel is a good engine, usually very problem free (other than exhsut pressure sensor getting clogged with soot - easy to fix though).

We had one in a juke for about 5 years, and 3 nissan vans at work have them, the oldest being around 220k miles now, only needed glow plugs and exhaust sensor cleaned in that time.

 

[AnargyrosB]

Planning a return to Panda ownership. Dreadful MPG has put me off the notion of a TwinAir / Cross.

Between the old beloved 1.2 and the new ‘Mild Hybrid’ - what should I opt for?

I know the Hybrid isnt a true one like Toyota’s or one that’s very innovative. I watched a video from Fiat… which gave me more questions than I began with.

Owners - do you like it? Love it? Hate it..?

I own the 2023 Version of the Panda Mild Hybrid 1000cc have put 20.000 Km in 3 months.
Purchased NEW for 13.000 EUR (all the extra's included except the extra Airbag and the big screen)
The car uses OW-20 engine oil so change it every 5.000 Km like OW-8 oils the 0W-20 are like oily water ...not like engine oil.

I got the car Converted to LPG and I am happier than ever . Just get your mechanic to calibrate for over 4.000 RPM to use a mixture of 10% LPG 90% petrol to protect the 60Kg Aluminium Engine from the excessive Heat and damage. Always use a mixture from 10-15% of petrol thoughout the REV range for Lubrication purposes that the Petrol has and the LPG does not have. This way you will never have engine problems etc. I highly recommend doing the conversion to LPG.

In Greece petrol today is 2 EURO a liter also the LPG is 0,69 EURO/L. So for spare parts, installation, calibration & MOT in Greece cost to do this on a well renowned after marked LPG installer such as EUROPEGAS (largest in Greece and Poland) is 800 EUR all in. So the system pays for itself after 10.000Km or less as petrol prices increasing

On Petrol stock from the Factory running on 90 Octans petrol in Athens Greece, the car driven aggressively with the Start - Stop Off consumes 9-10L/100Km of petrol in the city and on the highway loaded with 4 people and A/C it consumes 6L/100Km doing 130 Km/h top speed (max legal speed in Greece) which is super.

The car is a 3Cyl and suffers under full load with 4 adult passengers, full luggage etc and A/C especially going uphill (70Hp 3Cyl natural aspirated) but if you drop it down to 2nd and 3rd Gear you have adequate acceleration to fill Safe on the highway or a high speed avenue.

The battery works as an accelerator boost especially on the 4th, 5th, 6th Gear. So you don't tend to go to a lower gear for acceleration.

The car sits low in the ground.. I would change the supension system from the Panda 4*4 or Panda Cross or Panda CNG (only the back are higher)

If you are located in a city center with ULEZ emissions areas etc the Panda Hybrid is the best option . In Greece it pays no Road Tax no nothing due to low emissions and being EURO 6D.

The TwinAir in comparison pays 180 EUR a year and the 1,2 4Cyl pays 120 EUR a year.. these will go up with the EU Green Deal hoax.

The Mild Hybrid Battery sits under the drivers seat, it costs 300 EUR all in from FIAT to replace with a brand new and you can get it fixed at an independent shop (they change individual modules) . In comparison Toyota Yaris CVT Hybrid Nickel Metal Hybrid Batteries which is old tech costs over 9.000 EUR to replace new from Toyota and they only do balancing no replacing cells due to acid .

All in a Panda is cheap to buy, the cheapest car to lease in Greece , it is not cheap to Run on petrol in the city (it is with LPG) its okay on Petrol in the highway. If you use Fuel Additives like Octane Boosters or more expensive 100Octans petrol the car gets much better consumption and the car runs better, revs better. The LPG in comparison in Greece is over 110 octans equivalent .. so you get max boost and you get the added protection because LPG can not be diluted like Petrol or Diesel.

The PANDA has expensive spare parts from MOPAR (FIAT - Stellantis spare parts maker) but you can find affordable OEM without the original - maker stamp and maker box.

Hope to have helped those interested.

 

[AnargyrosB]

The renault 1.5 diesel is a good engine, usually very problem free (other than exhsut pressure sensor getting clogged with soot - easy to fix though).

We had one in a juke for about 5 years, and 3 nissan vans at work have them, the oldest being around 220k miles now, only needed glow plugs and exhaust sensor cleaned in that time.

the GLA, Renault Captur, Dacia Duster, the Juke the Megane.. all use the same automatic Gearbox. Cost to replace that over 5000 EUR in Greece all in with spare parts+ VAT & work hours. The manual also brakes after 100-120.000 Km with costs to replace around 3.000 EUR

So I would go for the Fiat automatic or manual (even better)

Over a renault or Nissan or Small engine Mercedes. The engine is good but gearbox is where they make their money.

I own a Captur 2018 Diesel 110ps 1500cc Dual Clutch automatic and Fiat Panda 2023 Mild Hybrid 6speed manual 1000c 3cyl