Technical Megasquirt construction project

[randomizered]

Yes, all gauges are working fine, i managed to fire it up but runs rough and refuses to rev.

Same symptoms as mine.....idled incredibly bad, popping, cutting out, throttle did nothing but make it wors, no rpm increase...for a while i though my engine had died.

I replaced the VR/CPS sensor for another and it fired straight away.

The big problem is, without an oscilloscope, you don't really know whether the signal is good or bad

Kristian

 

[Asteris]

If Marelli pin 28 is positive and 11 the negative, it seems i had them reversed. And so i had rpm out of sync and dropouts.

My configuration is now, MS 24 to MA 28, MS 7 to MA 11, Jumper VRIN to TACHSELECT on the bottom side of the PCB (near the DB37, opposite the heat sink.) and TSEL to VROUT on the bottom side of the PCB, near the center.

Tomorrow will show...

 

[arc]

Arc, is that for sure? Where did you get this info from? Neither Haynes manual, nor Seicento service manual distinguish positive and negative pins of the sensor.

information taken from the 16F ECU Technical Information Document.

Number 	Description 	Component / Function Notes
1 	Output 		Ignition Coil 1 Cylinders 1+4
2 	Output 		Idle Control Stepper Motor Phase B
3 	Output 		Idle Control Stepper Motor Phase D
4 	Output 		Central Power Relay (Power-Latch) Power to RAM
5 	Input 		Automatic Gearbox ECU input Only on Version CA
6 	Output 		ECU Warning Lamp Activated on -Vbatt
7 	Input / Output 	Immobilizer (If Present, otherwise NC) Bidirectional
8 	Input 		Air Conditioner Relay on (+) Activated on +Vbatt
9 	NC 		Not Connected Not Connected
10 	Input 		Serial Line L Unidirectional line (FLT->ECU)
11 	Input 		TDC / RPM Sensor Signal Negative
12 	Input 		Lambda Sensor Signal Negative
13 	Input 		Water Temperature Sensor Signal
14 	Output 		Sensor +5v Line 5 volt DC
15 	Output 		Serial Line K Bidirectional line (FLT->ECU)
16 	Power 		Signal Grounds In Wiring Loom
17 	Power 		Primary Ground Engine Ground
18 	Output 		Fuel Injector Controls SPi Unit
19 	Output 		Ignition Coil 2 Cylinders 2+3
20 	Output 		Idle Control Stepper Motor Phase A
21 	Output 		Idle Control Stepper Motor Phase C
22 	Output 		Charcoal Canister Multifunction Valve
23 	Output 		Engine Speed Limiting (Fuel Pump) Relay Fuel Pump / Injector / Canister / Coils / Lambda
24 	Output		Air Conditioner Relay on (-) Activated on Gnd
25 	NC 		Not Connected Not Connected
26 	Input 		Ignition in "On" Position
27 	NC 		Not Connected Not Connected
28 	Input 		TDC / RPM Sensor Signal Positive
29 	Input 		Lambda Sensor Signal Positive
30 	Input 		Throttle Position Sensor Signal
31 	Input 		Air Temperature Sensor Signal
32 	Input 		MAP Sensor Signal
33 	NC 		Not Connected Not Connected
34 	Power 		Secondary Ground Engine Ground
35 	Power 		Positive feed from Main Relay Positive out from ECU Relay / Power-Latch

and then matching it up with me ripping my old loom apart;

1	white/green	coil pack 1					
2	green		idle controller
3	blue/yellow	idle controller
4	blue/red	fuel injection main relay (winding input)
5	
6	grey/red	injector warning light
7	
8	green		air con
9	
10	l blue/ blue	diagonostic socket
11	blue/red	TDC sensor
12	brown/green	lambda 
13	purple/white	CTS
14	l blue/black	5v supply for MAP and TPS
15	white/red	diagnostic socet
16	black		CTS, IAT, MAP, Lambda, DS, main earth
17	green/black	lambda
18	pink/black	injector
19	l blue/red	coil pack 2
20	blue/white	idle controller
21	white		idle controller
22	orange/black	canister purge solenoid
23	black/purple	fuel pump relay (winding input)
24	yellow		air con
25	
26	orange		fuel pump relay (winding earth)
27	
28	yellow/black	TDC sensor
29	blue/yellow	lambda
30	pink		TPS
31	purple		IAT
32	yellow/red	MAP sensor (signal)
33	
34	grey/black	main ecu earth

 

[Asteris]

Thanks, so this was definitely an error at my configuration. The configuration in my previous post seems to be the right one. I'll try it as soon the rain stops here in Greece...

 

[Asteris]

Yeap, the configration i posted at #62 is 100% right, engine fires up at first touch.

I got the sweeter engine noise i ever heard from a FIRE engine. I'm a happy man. Engine revs like a dream, it reminds me of Honda machines.

Pity i run out of laptop power (waiting on a 12V car laptop PS...). It also idles a little higher than normal and doesn't react at IAC controller's command. I might have to check connections on that.

Angle of 1st tooth to the TDC is 114 degrees, this setting gave lowest (25kPa) idling MAP reading.

 

[randomizered]

can you post your msq and spark adn wheel decoder settings?

Kristian

 

[arc]

I got the sweeter engine noise i ever heard from a FIRE engine. I'm a happy man. Engine revs like a dream, it reminds me of Honda machines.

nice work

 

[Asteris]

can you post your msq and spark adn wheel decoder settings?

Kristian

Advance table i use, is the one i posted on the other topic about MS:

Ok, here are two ignition tables that Jim, a mastersquirter from msefi forum prepared for us, based on my info on the 1242 8V turbo'd engine:

Ignition table for 9.8:1 CR

Ignition table for 8.0:1 CR

Waiting comments from anyone who tries it.

 

[Asteris]

Wheel decoder settings on MS-II extra are quite simple:

Teeth: 60
Missing teeth: 2
First tooth angle at TDC: 114.

Ignition options are:

Spark mode: Toothed wheel
Spark output: Going High (inverted)
Number of coils: Wasted spark
Spark A output pin: D14

 

[randomizered]

it's been a crap week. The neigbours didn't like the engine runnig late at night after work, so no progress has been made. I'm unemployed as of Friday, so with xmas coming I have no money at all, but at least a week before hand to get it up and running....if i can aford some petrol to run it

As it stands, i am now using daves timing pretty much with just a few tweaks. I think the fiat settings i used and thought were good was only a fluke and hidden by the fact the rpm sensr was faulty.

I can get it too idle fine, but give it a few thousand rpm and it pops out the exhaust and misfires.

The annoying thing is i don't have a clue if this is another hardware issue, or its just timing, spark etc.

arc and daves spark and VE table are very different I noticed so i may mix the two, or just tune a new one.

Sure i'll get it runnig soon, and then i can swap the engine i have as that need doing as my belt tensioner is on the way out and i don't want it to go!

Just an update really, no real progress fan control now works though

Kristian

 

[randomizered]

I had a quick play straight after work. It was idling a bit high, so went to the bay to adjust the idle screw, and the exhaust manifold was glowing red

That isn't a typical sight to see is it? Or can this be normal? I suspect not lol.

Still running fine, so not mega worried, but could possibly do with an egt probe :idea:

Roll on next week where i cn sit down and work from scratch.


Kristian

 

[Brooky]

ermm,it'll be running uber lean. get it sorted and wack some fuel in there, the only time ive had my manifold glowing was on a rolling road with the fan turned off

 

[randomizered]

calibrated LC1 with 12.2 AFR at that time is not uber lean...its rich.....but maybe the advance was way out?

next week I'll start from scratch and see how it turns out

Kristian

 

[J.R Racing]

How is this baby coming along? Now you've had more TIME to work on it? Hope its been a more successful week.

 

[randomizered]

Rubbish lol.

It funking freezing out there, i can get it going properly.

At the minute im on a coffee break at the moment to warm up

I'm currently remounting the VR sensor, checking TDC and all the timing marks, and taking it from there.

It will go, but who knows when

KRistian

 

[randomizered]

Well, I said it was cold and i was working on it, but i didn't expect that.....5 days in bed with the flu, even hallucinating...man it was evil.

Now i'm almost better though and so have had a quick play.

This was the latest little problem i was having:



Spiking on the rpm line, was causing it to thing it was jumping up to 6000+ when it approached 2020 rpm.

Today, i junked the vr wiring, and fitted microphone cable from maplins, and the vr off the 1368cc engine as its newer...al is now sorted, revs up fine with no spiking



I now need to tidy up the wires tomorrow, and then i can see how it goes down the street

Also found a useful document for finding the polarity of a vr sensor. I'll attach it later when i'm on the other machine.



KRistian

 

[Asteris]

It's pin 28 positive and 11 negative. If you connect the other way around, it doesn't rev past 1500-2000rpm. And it looses sync all the time.

Do we know how many steps the idle stepper motor has?

 

[randomizered]

I have no stock ecu, and when i did it wasn't the normal cento one, so pin numbers mean nothing to me. It doesn't matter anyway as it works now

I don't know about the stepper motor, I junked it and at present have no idle management. I will be running a Bosch idle valve soon though, as I didn't think the IAC stuff looked mature enough.

Kristian

 

[Asteris]

It is mature, they already achieved closed loop IAC idling, just like stock ECU, using PID algorithms. I am waiting on beta 17, where they fixed some bugs, to download it on my MS-II.

 

[randomizered]

Attached is the pdf i was talking about.

Basically, to find the vr polarity, you just need an LED and some metal (i used the house scissors). Nice, simple, and accurate

Kristian