Northern Auto Tech - ECU and Blue & Me Repairs

Technical Megasquirt construction project

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Technical Megasquirt construction project

Old ECU was pretty small unit, no idea what code it is without looking, its sat with old engine sat in Emma's dad's garage.

Its a newer Sei than yours so maybe different as none of the wiring diagrams matched up, it was trial and error, but defo has fuel pump relay behind ECU.

TBH we changed nothing on the Fiat engine, all sensors are as they were and all communicate with the Emerald and the fuel pump is controlled with it as well as part of returnless system.

One sensor changed the throttle body being off a Rover K series had the Rover/Bosch throttle position sensor IIRC not Fiat.
 
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yep, they seemed to flip between a few different ecu's. mine sounds different to yours.

it's also true that the wiring diagrams i have are very different. A bit of it matches...a LOT doesn't lol.....also on one or two of the connections fiat change the wiring colour mid loom :bang: Nothing my multimeter couldn't sort though (y)

Trying to locate one har to find cable though.

I have now committed anyway....first connector has been cut off...just the larger one to do tomorrow night.

DSC00052.JPG

There's no turning back now without sourcing another loom for the same ecu.

Kristian
 
Identified all the wires now....even the fan wire in the second loom so thats all good....and so i started to find where to install teh loom.

In the past I ran the alarm wiring through the euro steering column rubber bung, but i have never beem happy with the wiring through there.

I decided the easiest way to channel the wire was to remove the speaker, brill through the bulk head up there.

This allows for easy routing without the need to remove the dash. Its also out of the way and in a nice dry area, so there is little/no worry of water ingress into the car.

Here are the pics of what I did :

DSC00053.JPG DSC00054.JPG

DSC00055.JPG DSC00057.JPG


As you can see I have plenty of loom left, as i was going to link it up direct. Now it will be spliced into the cut loom though.

Tomorrow, soldering.....either finishing off the MS, or joining the looms together (y)

I reckon by next week I'll be up an running :D

Cheers,

Kristian
 
argh lol, what a load of rubbish.

Finished linking up tonight and turned on the key to int. Fuel pump primes all the time.

Strange i though as I linked up the fuel pump relay and thought i had the connections correct. Obviosly not.

AS the pump was driven by the injection relay, it would only come on when the ecu was starting and running the car.

What i thought was the fuel pump +ve wasn't :(

Therefore i have to trace from the pump along the car, find out where the pump +ve joins the rest of the loom, cut it, fit in a new +ve wire to the fuel pump relay.

Really annoyed about that, I don't have the correct gauage wire, and I don't have the time. car needs to be running by thursday.

Hopefully progress will go better from now on.

I may just try and run the car with the pump coming on in the int position for now. It means it will always be running on the first click, but shouldn't cause a major problem.

Cheers,

Kristian

Kristian
 
so the fuel pump is just linked to an ignition live? that should be fine for a temp job, it just removes MS ability to control pump, which it doesnt really need to do. (it's handy for error codes though!)
 
well, thats very interesting.

its the same model ecu with the same connectors, yet it looks like some of the other wiring is different. I def only have 2 relays, never mind, i'm on top of it now.

Tried to start tonight, cranks, reads the crank/rpm ok, but after two tries my battery was dead :( so its on charge and that put a halt to tonights fiddling.

Better luck tomorrow night (y)

Kristian
 
what does your ve and spark table look like?

good sign that it is getting the crank signal though. you need a battery like mine for playing like this. when mine was playing up the other weekend, i spent a long time cranking it over and when i eventually fixed the tiny silly little problem - it fired straight up!
 
at the moment its a direct copy of Dave's. They are the same engine basically and his was running quite well apparently, so hopefully that will all be ok.

on the two cranks its was slow and you could hear the engine slowing due to no power. There were a few pops and exhaust smell so something was happening.

I may buy a big battery today, in preperation of moving it to the boot, and just run it off jump leads for now.

Will update tonight on how it all went (y)

Kristian
 
It runs :) .... kind of lol

I tried both daves and arc's maps on there, and its apparent that arcs timing and tooth settings are closer than what dave's are.

I can't acheive a start at all on dave's, but can with arc's. Changing on the fly almost induces a stall when using daves timing's.

Idle is very bad still though, engine rocking, few misfires, something is obviously up.

I pulled the lead on 1+2 which are powered by different coils I think, and both have spark, so looks like its a timing issue.

I'll have to buy a timing strobe, and have a play. Its pleasing to see it run, although very carp, and no increase in revs on the throttle.

I'm thinking the issue is a timing/spark issue, or a vr pot adjust/dirty signal problem.

I can log but haven't analysed them yet. Hopefully i can get an idea of how the crank signal looks and see if its the problem or not (y)

Kristian
 
you should've heard mine when it fired up, it sounded awful. but it was running, so i was chuffed.

indeed 1+2 should be on different coils. Have got the coil firing 1 and 3 wired up to igntion driver number 1?

With regards to starting, what cranking angle are you using? Default is 10, but i changed mine to 5 because i found it started easier. You might benefit from putting it back to 10 to see how it starts on yours. This only effects cranking though.

Nice work fella, bet you smiled when it started!
 
Yep, big smile lol :D

Thinking about it, although i have checked and double checked, it is acting like when i connected my coils up backwards on the old 1.1 a few years back, idling but very crap and nothing when you press the throttle. Maybe I;ve got it backwards. I'll check later.

Cheers,

Kristian
 
:D Nice one! If I remember mine wouldn't start with the coils reversed.

Just a note

Bill S gave me a ticking off when I wired the relay outside of megasquirt.:eek:
 
So, what will it be, MS pin 36 to Marelli pin 19 (coil A) and MS pin 6 to Marelli pin 1 (Coil B), or vice versa?

And a note for all those MS-II extra firmware people. Beta 2.0 v14 and later, leaves the IAC always on and might kill the idle valve... Wait for newer beta version.
 
I'm not happy now. Had chance to fiddle for a few hours tonight, and not making much progress lol.

Coils are definitely correct way around.

Starting and cranking is fine, but it doesn't idle well.

I had tried both dave's and arc's timing, and it still didn't seem right, so I pulled the plugs, jacked it up and set about determining it myself.

Tooth 17 is exactly under the sensor/before TDC when the engine is at TDC.

DSC00075.jpg

My fiat books say this is the trigger after the 2 blank teeth have passed and at 114 degrees, and this seems to be exactly what i am seeing as well.

I input the figures into the trigger calculator, and it gives me:

Trigger angle 60 degrees
Trigger A 9
Trigger B 39

This ties in with what another member on here was using.

60 + (9x6) = 114 mine and mr heat
(69+45) + (3x6) = 123 dave
76 + (8x6) = 121 arc

3 very different timings for pretty much the same engine :confused:

Mine does concur with the fiat manual though, and does seem to run the best on mine, but still is carp.

Not sure where to fiddle with from here.

TPS is calibrated, air and fluid are calibrated, injector flow is calibrated / calculated (IWP045 / 200cc), wideband is all set up and working ok.

The throttle seems to make no difference to engine noise and speed, but makes more pops and bangs lol

Wish i had spliced into the current loom looking back on it, so i could at least check i haven't killed the engine off somehow :eek:

Any ideas? Could even be a problem with my construction, but all seems ok on the stimulator, apart from the rpm which doesn't work properly on it anyway.

All I can think of doing at the moment is inverting the VR sensor in case i wired it up in revere (don't think i have), or sourcing a scope, to make sure the rpm sensor is being read properly via the MS. Is there any way i can record the digital signal the MS uses?

Cheers,

Kristian
 
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i am very dead atm, so not much help - but on your angle calculations - where is the 8X6 bit coming from that brings my trigger to 121?

i will have a look at this when i'm more awake and try and advise.
 
The trigger angle is the angle that goes in the spark section. You can set this to anything you like.

Then in the wheel decoder section you have the two triggers for the two ignition events.

These events are in relation to the trigger advance, hence why you and dave have different triggers and different decoder tables.

I messed up all the calculations in the other post though, go by these ;)

You have an advance of 76 degrees but your first trigger event is taken 8 teeth in from the 1st tooth. Each tooth is 6 degrees (360 degrees / 60). Your timing is set to trigger at 76 degrees + ( 8 teeth x 6 degrees ) = 124

Daves configuration was set at 63 degrees plus an additional 45 degrees giving 108 degrees, but his decoder settings were 3 teeth at 6 degrees offset. Therefore 126 degrees.

Mine are set to 60 degrees advance delayed 9 teeth, so 60 + (9 teeth x6 degrees) = 114



I may not understand this thing at all and am frantically doing research on it, but I think what im saying is correct.

What we are seeing here though, if i am right, is that your timing is 8 degrees away from mine, and daves was 10 degrees....thats not much really, and can easily be accounted for a tooth or two out on the cam belt.

I even noticed a modified timing wheel for the sei's in ePer, that changed the timing 3 degrees i think, so its not much, and a tooth or two can easily be corrected for by the MS.

Yours and daves timing are only half a tooth apart though, despite the different ways of getting there, whereas mine is almost 2 teeth.


I had a thought tonight though.....are you running all injectors from one bank? I'm running off two, perhaps i should check they are both squirting ;)


Kristian
 
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