Technical Marea 130 JTD Glow Plugs

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Technical Marea 130 JTD Glow Plugs

schwalbe

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Marea just churning over this morning, but won't start. Checked for fuel flow etc, all OK. Alarm is disconnected because it and the central locking had stopped responding to key fob, so reconnected it. Still nothing. Remembering that the yellow 'filament' indicator had been showing after start up, decided to replace glow plugs. Got to the last one and the tip has snapped off and stayed in the head. Any ideas to get it out without taking the head off because that will cost more than the car's worth! Also any ideas to get it running, surely it will start on four glow plugs.
 

gwarclawdd

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Usually they will start and run perfectly well in the coldest weather on four glowplugs. Try some penetrating oil on the broken bit and then a small screw extractor might just pull the bit out
 

Hellcat

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I think he means the tip of the glow plug is inside the cylinder :eek:

I'm not sure what you can do.. vaccuum but then will you be sure it's all gone?
 

Venters

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never seen the tip of a glow plug so this might be a stupid idea.
What about putting something sticky on the end of a stick and trying to fish the bit out?
 

bandido41

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Im guessing by the tip of the glow plug you mean its the whole part that lights up to warm up the fuel on initial start up, i have had this happen on an old toyota i used to have, i found that due to the carbon build up in the head the glow plugs got stuck i removed mine by putting brake fluid around it every day for a week and then i gripped the little bit that was just sticking out of the head with a mole grip and i managed to get it off.
 
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schwalbe

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Nothing sticking out to grip, even if you could get grips near it: if you have ever seen where the glow plugs are on a JTD engine you will know why. The tip has brokn off but stayed blocking the hole.
 

bandido41

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No i havent seen the glow plugs on a marea i forgot how restricted the 5 pot engine bays were :eek: i think by the sounds of things it will have to be head off which maybe isnt such a bad thing so at least you can clean the carbon off. Did the car car still not start after you replaced the glow plugs (assuming you replaced them with new ones) try heating the plugs up directly by taking a wire from the positive terminal on the battery and touching it on the head of one of the glow plugs for 8-10 seconds. could be your glow plug relay that maybe isnt kicking in.
 
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schwalbe

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Hi: I ran the battery down trying to start it: slaved it off my wife's car when she came in and still no sign of life BUT i resorted to taking fuses out and putting them back and after i did this to one of the red relays in the glove box it started! and has done several times since. Now trying to find out what i did. Glow plug rely sounds like No 1 suspect, but where is it? There are lots of things on this car whose wherabouts I can't find and I've had it six years.
 

Kev_marea

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The hole between the glow plug chamber and the piston chamber is not big enough to allow the broken bit to go through and damage the piston. How much broke off? Edit: just realised I might be incorrect, if the glowplug is in the same chamber as the intake valve, you could be in trouble - sorry I wasn't able to see into my intake chambers when i had my head off, so I can't be certain. What you would not want is to push it in with the intake valve open on that cylinder.

I just checked and the glow plug tip is magnetic, so buy a magnetic tipped probe and stick that in the glow plug hole and try to fish it out. You will want a magnetic tip about 7mm diameter the hole will be about 9mm so a 7mm will fit in easy.


Edit: Just saw you said the tip is blocking the hole, push it back in with the magnet and then bring the magnet out, hopefully it will stick to the magnet.
 
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schwalbe

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Don't know the layout of the head: as it's in there now without the body of the plug being screwed in above it, wouldn't the compression blow it out when the engine is running?
 

stylers

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sounds like you meant the head of the glow plug broke off, leaving the body in the cylinder head. And you have it running now, which is good. The JTD, like most other common rails dont rely on plugs as much for starting, hell they dont even come on long enough to heat up properly. So it probably should have started anyway. Its more likely that there was a problem with the ECU relay or fuel pump relay or fuses as you found. Replace the two relays and fuses if it fails to start again (go to a scrappies and rob the relalys from another fiat or alfa. the black ones can replace the red ones). As for the glow plug, maybe a correctly sized screw extractor would get it out, but its going to be bloody impossible if you cant get good access to the plug.. if this is the case it would probably be ok to leave it there.

So..

always try to test glow plugs before replacing them, and make sure you have correctly sized and decent spanners and sockets to prevent wringing them. they are very easily damaged by poor tools, and can be very difficult to remove once damaged.

Owen.
 
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schwalbe

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Thanks for your input. For illustration I have attached a pic of the broken plug and a normal one so you can see what is left in the head. I'm guessing that the broken one was causing the lamp to stay on, and if that is the case it has been there for about two years without moving so I assume I'm safe to leave it there.

Are the two relays the ones in the glove box?
 

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Kev_marea

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How do you know it has stayed blocking the hole? (picture)? If that is the case, unless you can either refit the broken plug or fit a new plug, then you will only be running on 3 out of 4 cylinders (or 4/5 whatever) because you will have no compression, this will lead eventually to HG failure or piston ring failure.

It could be the plug has got carbon build up on it and that's why it didn't come through the hole. Or it could be that you broke it when you pulled the plug out and pulled it away before getting the whole thing out.

If you can confirm the plug is not in the same hole as the inlet valve - that it has its own chamber, then you can safely push it back in.

If it is in the same chamber as the inlet valve then you should try to refit the broken plug, (you could angle grind off the bit below the thread to make it shorter.) and hope that it remains stuck where it is, because if that enters the valve gap your engine is knackered. If it were me I'd take the shortened plug out again (straight away) to see if it has dislodged the plug end, and then stick a magnetic tip in there, if you have access shine a torch in to see whatever you can see. or if you're really clever get a small LED bulb and lower it into the chamber to see inside. I suspect a torch will be next to impossible to see into the chamber, it's hard enough on petrol cars through the spark plug hole (and they're bigger holes).

No, I doubt the compression will blow it out, if it is loose inside the chamber it will at most rattle about, if it is stuck in the hole then the air will just escape around it.
 
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schwalbe

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I know it's blocking the hole because:

1: I cant fit the new plug because it won't go in far enough

2: The car is running fine with no noise you would associate with a hole in the head!

I guess I will put the broken plug back in to stop it firing the stub out through the bonnet if it decides to let go.
 
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stylers

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Bloody Hell.. on seeing your photo, I dont know how that plug tip is staying in the head. For peace of mind, I would pull the head and remove the tip. It'll cost a lot more to fix if it drops in..

yes, the relays described are mounted at the top of the glovebox..
 

Kev_marea

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I have a very strong feeling that there is a seperate chamber for the glowplug, and from what you describe it could be that it is not blocking the hole as such, it is just a small chamber and the 5cm piece of plug is blocking the new plug from going in properly. So I'd use a magnetic probe first.

you would need to put your finger near the plug hole when you start the engine to see if it is leaking, or have a compression test done. I doubt you'd hear anything.

But all this is immaterial, all you need to do is refit the broken plug. I'm sure you will be fine.
 
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schwalbe

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That is what I've done: if it was subject to compression it would have fired out like a bullet when it started. It's a question of economics: car worth £500, cost of removing head must be not far short of that. So if it falls in and wrecks the engine I haven't lost out, if it stays in place I still haven't lost out. No brainer.
 
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