General Leaking

[Mike1alike]

I expected to find some metal in it, but it looks like the bearing cage has totally gone and is now just metal fillings! At first I was worried when two ball bearings fell out of the case, not knowing where they came from. But turns out that is what is left of the bearing.

Mine had more balls left, but kind of the same story. I never found the missing balls. I imagine they mananaged to slip out, perhaps besides shaft because large oil leak started then, that made me take the gearbox down. Seal was broke. I looked around everywhere but no trace of any other ball. I put new bearing and new seals and everything works very well. That was 9 years ago.

 

[koalar]

Original bearing

 

[Mike1alike]

Original bearing

View attachment 484016

Hmmm... so no ball missing there on mine!
Mistery solved! After all this years!
Nice!

I did think it would have been impossible for balls to get out without doing some big damage. Means just the parts between the balls got out on mine, damaging the seal. Bits of that were inside, too.

@AnotherBodger, means you must find the rest of the balls. They must be hiding in the gearbox somewhere.

 

[koalar]

Loose they do cause catastrophic failure to the gears

Here's a hole made by one making a break for freedom

This gearbox is toast

The diff gears are damaged

The bell housing is holed

The main casing is cracked

 

[rmjbn1]

Mine had

Mine had more balls left, but kind of the same story. I never found the missing balls. I imagine they mananaged to slip out, perhaps besides shaft because large oil leak started then, that made me take the gearbox down. Seal was broke. I looked around everywhere but no trace of any other ball. I put new bearing and new seals and everything works very well. That was 9 years ago.

Ah, so you did upgrade to a roller bearing for the input shaft, Mike?
I think I'd do that if I have to do the job again

Strange that roller bearings appear on the C514 gearbox on Puntos but Pandas of similar age didn't seem to get them

 

[Mike1alike]

Ah, so you did upgrade to a roller bearing for the input shaft, Mike?

I did! Unfortunately, I didn't note down the exact part number and maker of that exact bearing. Looks like... Mopar.

 

[Mike1alike]

Original bearing

What is the part number for the original one? Do you know?

 

[koalar]

Ah, so you did upgrade to a roller bearing for the input shaft, Mike?
I think I'd do that if I have to do the job again

Strange that roller bearings appear on the C514 gearbox on Puntos but Pandas of similar age didn't seem to get them

The roller bearings are normally on the 6 speed gearbox

The original bearing is good for 200K as long as it kept oiled, I had two pandas just under and just this mark without issue, there are least two gearboxs that have done 1/2 million miles each

The one that failed was just after a clutch change, I bought the car cheap with the failed gearbox, another one here was just after a clutch change, coincident possibly

 

[koalar]

What is the part number for the original one? Do you know?

Already posted to the thread

 

[Mike1alike]

Already posted to the thread

Oh, right. Post #7. Thank you!

 

[puntodad19]

Any way of knowing ( from fiat ? ) Which bearing is in a gearbox when it left the factory ?

Punto Evo 1.2 8 valve active/feeling good 5 speed 2010 reg......

Spares number : 072 9941

Version : 199 bxz1a 51c

Recently saw the sticker on the driver's door ( r/h/d ) pillar, feeling good...

 

[AnotherBodger]

Loose they do cause catastrophic failure to the gears

Here's a hole made by one making a break for freedom


View attachment 484019

This gearbox is toast

The diff gears are damaged

The bell housing is holed

The main casing is cracked

Thanks for photo. I can now see mine could have been worse. The only reason we stopped driving it was the clutch failed! But I still need to find all those loose ball bearings. At a guess there were 7

 

[AnotherBodger]

What is the part number for the original one? Do you know? [ The only number on mine is 5204 but no idea if original. ] Sorry Wrong !!!!

I'm reading all these posts to find the answer. I now think I got this wrong. It should be 6204.

 

[puntodad19]

Picture shows magnet location...

 

[koalar]

Thanks for photo. I can now see mine could have been worse. The only reason we stopped driving it was the clutch failed! But I still need to find all those loose ball bearings. At a guess there were 7

Yes as long as it never been changed, as far as I know all 1.1 and 1.2 originally had 7

The gearbox above had 7 from a 2011 1.2

As did the latter 500 1.2 box I fitted

I posted somewhere the specs for the gearbox, It's torque that kills them, it does also depend on the weight of the car also, the gearbox used in the panda is officially rated to 300Nm and people have raced them to one 400Nm sometimes more without issue.

Far beyond the 100Nm of the 1.2 69hp

 

[koalar]

In the diff housing

Part number 2

 

[AnotherBodger]

If it's the same as the 169 1.1/1.2 gearbox

The original bearing is specialised, read expensive

6204AG15J30 I found some new old stock

It a glass reinforced plastic cage, there is a reinforcing ring on one side

@rmjbn1 successfully used a standard metal cage bearing SKF Explorer 6204 C3

Thank you for the reply. I thought this said 5204, so I was getting a confused over what I needed. So next question what do people mean when they say upgraded bearings. How is one better than another. Is the original 6204AG15J30 the best to fit if I can find one or are there any that should be avoided at all cost? So as I might replace all of them what are the good or bad places to get them.

 

[AnotherBodger]

View attachment 484013

Thanks, now I know where to look for the rest of my ball bearings

 

[koalar]

5204 isn't any of the normal part numbers for the input bearing

Fiat has chosen to send over 5x the cost on a special bearing, I don't know why or what benefits it holds

A cheaper alternative SKF Explorer 6204 C3 is known to work

The other bearing are normally okay double sealed and greased

Spin them if the are smooth but not loose or gritty they will be fine

If you change all the bearing it costs more than getting a low milage replacement

 

[Mike1alike]

So next question what do people mean when they say upgraded bearings. How is one better than another. Is the original 6204AG15J30 the best to fit

SKF 6204-2RSH is the same and SKF is good bearings maker.
Upgrade is Cylindrical Roller Bearing versus Radial Insert Ball Bearings.
Mopar (original Fiat) I think is cylindrical roller, although what they fit originally on gearbox is radial ball. Their code is 46343828.
I think this SKF is the same size and it's cylindrical roller, N204ECP SKF.