Styling KC3 Project Silver

[docorangepeel]

Nice one KC What does the brake balence feel like now? Does the master C keep up with the bigger Brembo callipers? ABS all working OK?

Doc

PS Did you keep the design plans for the brake calliper adapters? Are the Brembo callipers off a Coupe 16v? I ask as I will give you some money for the design plans as I want to get some made as well.

Great work.

 

[bumble]

Doc, what are your thoughts on, retaining the original calipers/discs/pads etc., but upgrading the brake master cylinder? Is it possible to improve brake performance by doing this? Steve

 

[s130]

I'm interested in this for different reasons.

On two cars (Uno SX and Strada Abarth 130TC) we have over 12,000 miles of hard track use.

During this time we have tried the then infamous TAR.OX discs and pads, Mintex, etc. etc. and to be honest the price to performance increase was not worth it. We also sufferred severe imbalance of the groved discs as one side weared more than the other. After this we went back to standard discs and pads but with additional forced cooling.

Now this was on cars with NO ABS, emergency brake assist etc. gizmos. With a standard Barchetta with ABS then I am really struggling (except of track us with no ABS) to really see what (for most motoring) uprated discs and calipers have to offer. In the dry or wet I can get the 'B' ABS to easily kick in. This means the tyre adhesion has given way, the wheel has/is approaching stalling and in a non ABS car on the track one would be looking to feather or even cadence brake to regain control.

So for a 'B' road car, even fast 'B' road car then I am really wondering, other than looks/appeal etc. what if any breaking perforance is obtained especially bearing in mind the cost involved.

 

[docorangepeel]

The bigger the brakes the more surface area you have. This helps the brakes dissipate heat faster so brake fade will be decreased over stock.

Bigger brakes would be more beneficial for continues fast braking (tracks)

The bigger brakes also look better if you have fitted larger wheels on your B.

Issues can be the brake pedal becomes rock solid and you have to press real hard to get your new big brakes to bite. If this is the case then upgrading the Master C would be the way to go. I would also look at manual brake balancing to help you dial out the difference between the new large from callipers and the stock rears. That said I have never driven a B with upgraded front callipers I cant say how much this mod upsets the B. I have driven a turbo B and that was asking for a brake upgrade :devil:

It looks like you can upgrade the rear as well on the B so that would be a good way to go if you have upgraded the front.

I would like to know how the ABS gets on with this mod as well.

I fitted semi race pads to my B for a while and had to change back as I just couldn't keep the temp in the pads while driving on the roads. Don't get me started on how bad the brakes felt when i pulled away first thing in the morning from cold.

I would like to upgrade my front and rear callipers like KC as I like mods for looks and for performance and its interesting trying new mods. Nice work KC for pushing a new mod forward and let us know how the car feels.

Just my 10p
Doc

 

[s130]

Agree with increased fade resistance - but you have to be really hammering the brakes on a fast road car over a resonable distance to hit this problem

Agree with looks

Agree with heavy pedal and/or poor cold performance

Another item one has to be very careful with is master to slave cylinder fluid volumes. Often fitting bigger calipers means that pedal travel is increased to such an extent that the optimum fulcrum point is exceeded and pedal can be also too close to the floor for comfort. This is a common problem on the Strada Abarth. Fiat/Bendix didn't get the volumes correct so due to sloppy, over retracting rear brake shoes the brake pedal travels way to far for correct operation/leverage. In the Strada's case this is easily fixed by reducing the brake shoe return spring strengths.

Another this to watch out for on grooved discs is that the wear evenly on both sides. It is common on single sided with single or dual pot calipers that the pressure/pot side of the discs wears more. This becomes for evident with the uprated harder wearing break pads supplied with these enhanced brake kits. What really brings this on though is aggressive track us where one or more times per laps one is breaking very hard from over 100mph to much lower speeds for hairpins/chicanes.

 

[KC3]

Hiya Guys,
Sorry for the late reply, was on my holidays and just got back..

Re the brakes, i havent had a chance to test them as of yet as the calipers at present were fouling the rims and are awaiting the lathe turner to also return from his hols to make me some new hubcentric spacers, 5mm for the front and some new 15mm for the rear..

As soon as i have had the chance to test them fully I will let you all know,

Also while the B is in the garage it will have her engine droped,
New Belts, pulleys water pump and variator done, also the new lite flywheel and new clutch.

While the engine is out i,m also planning to have the engine bay repainted.

Still trying to convince my nethew to do the turbo mod but because he works on turbos all the time says it would not be a good idea here with the high 40degree temperatures and is also ilegal to modify to turbo if the car has not been produced that way. People do take the risk but if the police were to see the turbo on the B they do have the power to confiscate the vehicle.

Will probally take the route of fast road cams when i can afford them..

So if anyone fancys a turbo and manifold for the B just drop me a message.

 

[KC3]

Have now had new spacers made, 5mm for the front and 15mm at the back.
allowing clearance for the new brembo's. At the rear i originally had 12mm spacers from H&R but when fitting new tyres a while back the fitters broke one of hubcentric collars so decided to have new ones made and added the extra 3mm which should align the wheels flush with the body work.

now i know the brembo's fit i have taken them off again to have them oven sprayed yellow. never really liked the red and besides they will now match my suspension, Ive had new brembo stickers made and the sprayer will laquer over them so as they will last and not peal. should be ready late monday so will post pics when i have them back.

Plan to get the wheels refurbished were they have been scuffed, i will do the repairs with an alloy filler kit i have and then have them sprayed proffesionally.

 

[LittleRedB]

Brembos are on, rear bushes upgraded to teflon, Eibach anti roll bar repainted blue and i will also repaint the front brembo's and discs when i can..

Geeze KC - you keep up this kind of work and detail you will be putting Gav to shame!!!

 

[KC3]

Geeze KC - you keep up this kind of work and detail you will be putting Gav to shame!!!

Lee, Always had that competitive streak in me!

Remember our burn up the M1,

 

[LittleRedB]

Ah yes, great day out that was - 'specially when you were stopped 'cos I laid down some rubber on the way out of the services!!!

 

[KC3]

New brembo's repainted just the way i like them.

Tried white stickers at first but believe they needed the black over the yellow.

My nephew Mike who's a mechanic and best man come to think of it, plans to devote some of his time this weekend and refit all the brakes back again. Ive got new discs and pads for the front but will need to buy some new for the rear as their worn, Planing on the Tarox F2000 discs with Tarox Strada pads, Guess they would be nice up the front too.
I,ll give a full report when the brembo's are all fitted and tested.

Be great to have the B uncovered and have a blast in her again if only for a short while as she will need to go back in the garage to have her belts, pulleys, waterpump and variater change.

 

[KC3]

While at the paint shop having my new brake discs painted I noticed the sprayer had sprayed someone's light clusters so as to tint them.

This gave me the idea to have the same done with The B's front orange indicators.
Think it will give the B a more sporty and modern look.

Heres some pics of the B with orange indicators and the new indicators light spray tinted.

More pics to follow when there on the car.

 

[bollie69]

I would love to have some clear indicators. I saw one last time, but can't seem to find any anywhere

 

[KC3]

Hiya Bollie, never seen or heard of clear indicators for the B, are you sure it wasnt the fog lights you may have seen, they can look very simmilar when off the vehicle, but there are clear lenses avaliable for the side indicators.

 

[bollie69]

Hi, yes I know those 2 are available.
But I'm sure of the clear indicator lenses. I saw a barchetta once with ones fitted. but can't seem to find the picture .

 

[KC3]

Had all the new brakes put on the B today, so i,m a happy man.

Tommorrow i will get the exhaust back on and get to have a test run and see how the brakes are working.

 

[HP]

That should stop quite nicely then!

 

[docorangepeel]

Hi KC

Let us know how the brakes feel? How hard do you have to press to get the brakes to bite now?

 

[KC3]

Doc!
Managed to have quick test run today and brakes feel good, the pedal is a little spongey but thats until the new pads bed in. Only problem is she's pulling to the left when i slam them on. The track ends are the original and i remember once when i needed the tracking done, the mechanic wasnt able to undo them from the rods as they had ceased/ rusted together. Also the ABS light has come on. but i,d imagine its because i had the rear discs sprayed with the hubs on and may have got paint or dirt in the teeth.

On inspection my left track rod end has some play in it and also one of my rear hub bearings are worn and idealy i should have the tracking done again.

So! Back we go into our savings and i've ordered complete new left/right track rods & rod ends which arrive tommorrow and i hope to get on and get the tracking done.

I will require new rear bearings and discs at some point but their is a little more life left in them so i,ve left the old ones on for now and just added new pads.

More testing and reviews once its all done.

They LOOK GREAT though !!!!

 

[bollie69]

It looks the dogs man!
I wish I could place grooved disks too but MOT here in Belgium don't allow any modification to the brake system.
Unless they don't see it. but I think they would

Verry nice wheels too. aren't they too big to maintain a confy ride?