Styling I've never been a fan of electric cars........

[MJG]

Untill.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoDZuOEOcHA

 

[TrevC]

Looks pretty good starting at under £20k for the entry level short range model, quite cheap for an EV. Just over 100 miles range is probably OK for a second car. I think it will be a few years before price parity with liquid fuelled equivalents is achieved though.

 

[Ralf S.]

That new "Fiat" badge though... Ahhhh Ahhhh Ahhhh

I can't "unsee" it..


Ralf S.

 

[Piccolo Nero e Bella]

Looks better than the MINI with that 'cigarette butt' sticking out of its mouth...

I'd like it but I'd never be able to afford it.

 

[Farrah]

HaHa,

Just wait after the first 6 months it will be 80 miles after a full charge at the cost of what it normally is, then if you are lucky maybe after a year 60 miles then after 2 years it will be on charge all day just to nip once into town.

I have not got one item or had one item over the past 10 years that has rechargeable batteries that has retained the original output. My Dyson used to just be enough to flick around a few rooms and hall and landing lasting about 30 minutes. One year on it has to be charged now after less than 15 minutes. Same with my iPad, hubby's battery drills, rechargeable lights.....just about everything lasts half as long now yet has to stay on charge too for longer. I am no engineer but wonder how much power will/is wasted having a battery on charge that is a 'dud':bang:


The car industry has never been really truthful about performance ie MPG etc so why would we expect it any different with batteries. I might go Hybrid eventually but a long way from trusting an electric battery only car.


Just my 2 volts worth rant

Farrah

 

[John202020]

My dad had his car in for service at Honda, whilst there a guy picked up his very first generation Honda insight about 20 years old, the battery still has about 70% capacity according Honda tech talking to my dad

 

[PuntoHowTo]

HaHa,

Just wait after the first 6 months it will be 80 miles after a full charge at the cost of what it normally is, then if you are lucky maybe after a year 60 miles then after 2 years it will be on charge all day just to nip once into town.

I have not got one item or had one item over the past 10 years that has rechargeable batteries that has retained the original output. My Dyson used to just be enough to flick around a few rooms and hall and landing lasting about 30 minutes. One year on it has to be charged now after less than 15 minutes. Same with my iPad, hubby's battery drills, rechargeable lights.....just about everything lasts half as long now yet has to stay on charge too for longer. I am no engineer but wonder how much power will/is wasted having a battery on charge that is a 'dud':bang:


The car industry has never been really truthful about performance ie MPG etc so why would we expect it any different with batteries. I might go Hybrid eventually but a long way from trusting an electric battery only car.


Just my 2 volts worth rant

Farrah

There is literally billions in investment into a future of electric vehicles and no one would be buying them if as you've claimed was found to be true.

Tesla have claimed based on thousands of cars being used in the real world, less than 10% battery degradation after 160,000 miles.

VW and Tesla have been working together to make batteries good for 1million miles that could potentially be used in a second car when the first car expires.

There are also plenty of people in the last 10 years who have use Tesla's and other electric cars as Taxis racking up massive mileage in some cases over 1million KM and having very little degradation in the batteries.

How many HP and efficiency does a petrol or diesel car loose after a few years in use and who bothers to check? at least with an electric car it will tell you if there is a battery problem

 

[varesecrazy]

There are more companies selling refurbed Prius batteries than there are selling refurbed 'multiair' units..

So multiair must be 'bullet proof'..

I would love to believe.. but am yet to be convinced

 

[PuntoHowTo]

There are more companies selling refurbed Prius batteries than there are selling refurbed 'multiair' units..

Two points to make on that, 1. The Prius has been around twice as long as the fiat multi air. 2. How many multi air engines have fiat made compared to the number of Prius?

Also older Prius batteries used NiMH batteries not Lithium which are more prone to deteriorate. And out of the 30ish batteries in a Prius pack only one cell might become faulty and the rest of the pack can be put back into use very easily.
New electric cars use lithium batteries which are much more robust.

 

[TrevC]

Furthermore, all EV manufacturers (although I haven't checked Fiat yet) warranty their batteries for at least 7 years against degradation below 70%.
It's interesting that the EV debate seems to have a few evangelists, who claim they are perfect and will save the planet, and a larger number of sceptics who are against them seemingly out of principle, without properly researching the facts.
I am neither, but confess I am an EV fan, and will look carefully at getting one in a couple of years. The cars are getting better and cheaper each year, and whilst the charging network needs lots of work on reliability and being able to pay with your credit/debit card, there are positive signs on that, too.
I'll wait for the broadside of responses on grid meltdown, lithium running out, etc...

 

[chris3234]

While I think electric powered cars are 100% the future
I'm still not 100% sold on battery powered (at least with current battery tech)
Perhaps one day they will find a way to refine hydrogen at a much lower energy cost or a newer lighter more energy dense battery tech will come around


National grid will also be a problem with rolling out the charging infrastructure in the short term more at the local level then national anyways

 

[g8rpi]

You cannot compare batteries in consumer items with those in EVs. The batttery management in EVs ensures that they are never over discharged or over charged.

Over discharging and over charging cells is very harmful to them. Due to the size and cost of EV batteries they are never charged or discharged to their maximum capacity. The slight loss in range per charge is far outweighed by the dramatic increase in battery life. With a torch, drill, cellphone etc the working life and cost of the item means using the full battery capacity at the expense of life is appropriate.


Robert G8RPI.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

It's interesting that the EV debate seems to have a few evangelists, who claim they are perfect and will save the planet, and a larger number of sceptics who are against them seemingly out of principle, without properly researching the facts.
I'll wait for the broadside of responses on grid meltdown, lithium running out, etc...

You seem to have a very similar view to myself, while no technology is perfect, and electric cars do have their draw backs no doubt.

The sceptics always seem to throw up the same old arguments but as you say without there own investigations, just a view or belief they have that any change is bad and any thing new is bound to fail

 

[varesecrazy]

True..
But I'd been talking about getting a Renault

 

[Gina500]

What really irritates me is the awful habit of making cars bigger, wider, heavier with each new release. I accept the weight increase in an electric car, but otherwise cars should rater get smaller than bigger, space in the streets is the biggest problem these days.

And most of the time, it's only 1 person in the car these days while the old 500 used to carry families with 3 kids.:

Ok, some people are bigger than others, but then they should buy a 500L.:devil:

 

[TrevC]

For me, one of the clever aspects of the new 500 is giving buyers the choice of battery size. Like the Mini, many 500s are used as a second cars or city cars, so the cheaper, smaller battery version will be fine. Those who use it for longer runs will have to spend extra, but at least there is the option.

 

[Farrah]

There is literally billions in investment into a future of electric vehicles and no one would be buying them if as you've claimed was found to be true.

Not sure I was 'claiming' anything re batteries just passing my opinion why I am not ready for an electric car from experience with many other items that the batteries just don't last and the false claims of the auto makers regarding fuel efficiency. I have a Range Rover (Diesel) claimed 45mpg actual 28mpg. Previous Jaguar XJ (petrol) claimed 28mpg actual 20mpg.......and OK I get the reasons/excuses the Diesels don't give the mpg until done over a 1000 miles and the Jaguar needs a good regular 'blasting' which unfortunately does not fit into my calm and gentle driving characteristics. Those are my claims and I assure this is FACT.


I appreciate rechargeable batteries have come a long way over the years and if what you say is correct then the battery could/should then be given a lifetime warranty and that would be a good starter. Lots of complaints though still live online re Apple iPhone battery life so why should we believe the car industry has suddenly got it all sussed out. There are claims also on smaller devices where the batteries are 'intelligent' charging and this has been around ever since the old rechargeables were discovered to have a 'memory' issue.


The manufacturers should then be looking to make the batteries a 'universal' simple quick fit (they can vary the capacity and have say 4 sizes) then instead of waiting hours on a trip from A-B that is longer than battery life then motorway/service stations could change their format to be a quick fit battery changeover as it would not matter then having the original battery and you just pay to have a charged battery replaced instead of filling up with fuel or waiting for charge ups.

Just think how safe some people feel driving into an unknown place parking up where theives would know the car is going to be static for a while and maybe even unattended. As I said maybe one day I will move to a hybrid but not convinced yet at all that the whole industry has it sorted for battery cars where individuals need to travel longer distances on an individual journey.

And for sure when all cars are electric 'eventually' and there will be no turning back then the government starts putting taxes on (roads will have to be paid for), or will that just be put on the cost of electricity so even our homes start having to pay more.:idea::idea:

Maybe a good separate thread as clearly worthwhile to discuss given the dislikes and likes put against my comment above as there are completely opposite views.

Farrah

 

[jrkitching]

there are completely opposite views

That's healthy; it promotes meaningful discussion. I can find something to agree with, and something to diagree with, in just about every post I've seen here so far.

Just don't join this thread if you're looking for everyone to agree with what you're saying.

My own contribution is to suggest that, in overall pence per mile terms, the long term cost of motoring in the post-electric world will be considerably more expensive than it is today.

 

[Farrah]

Just don't join this thread if you're looking for everyone to agree with what you're saying.

That is probably the worst comment I have ever seen.....and from a moderator....tell you what I will just leave the forum

Farrah

 

[jrkitching]

That is probably the worst comment I have ever seen.....and from a moderator....tell you what I will just leave the forum

Farrah

I'm very sorry if you took it personally; I certainly didn't mean it to be; I was just observing that there are always going to be a wide range of different and sometimes strongly held views about electric cars.