Technical Intermittent electrical issues with 2014 van (X290)

[charliebobgordon]

Hello - I'm reaching out for some advice on issues with our 2014 Citroen Relay (X290) self-build camper. Similar to a Fiat Ducato, so I hope nobody minds me posting here. We've been on the road for about a year without any major problems, but recently, we've encountered a series of intermittent issues since we've been in cold and wet places.

1. Electric Windows: Either not responding to commands or operating in the opposite direction of what's intended.
2. Interior Cab Light: While the interior cab light generally works when the door is opened, sometimes it fails to come on using the switches.
3. Blower Dial Illumination: The red/blue strip around the blower dial occasionally fails to illuminate, requiring a bit of a tap to get it to work.
4. Headlamp Issue: On one occasion, the driver's side headlamp stopped working but later started working again.
5. DPF Cleaning Light: We've recently received a 'DPF cleaning - keep the vehicle moving' alert, likely due to extended idling to charge our leisure batteries. Oops!
6. Parking Help Unavailable Alert: Assume is related to our rear parking sensors. We've tried cleaning them but it persists.
7. Low Rumble: Recently, when starting the engine and idling, we noticed a brief low rumble, almost as if the engine was about to stall, before returning to normal.
8. Noisy Cold Starts: Recorded this video of the noise when we turn the engine on from cold. There's usually a weird squeak or some rattling.

I've checked the fault codes using AlfaOBD. The following codes have come up. We've also had errors related to an open circuit on the electric windows, an interior temperature sensor (which has been non-functional since we got the van) and a mysterious code labeled 'Third STOP'.

• Engine Fault Codes: P0423, P1490
• Body Computer Fault Codes: B1029, B1016

I'm wondering if anyone has encountered similar issues or has insights into potential root causes. I wonder if these issues might be interconnected with an an earth connection problem? I've removed the battery terminals in the cab and cleaned them thoroughly, them seem quite clean already! I’ve checked the battery voltage and it’s healthy.

It’s a 2014 Citroen Relay (X290). It’s done 145,000 miles. We bought it in 2022 and had the EGR cooler replaced as it was leaking coolant when we got it. Since then we’ve had a full service and another oil change this year.

We're currently away from home, in France until Summer, so holding off taking it to a garage until I've tried some things myself and/or I'm back in the UK so communication will be a bit easier. Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

[the green vanper]

Hello,

The earth cables are known to cause strange / different electrical problems. I've posted lately an image where they are located. It should be also availablem in the eLearn module. It was for a x250, but in early x290 you'll have the same locations. Visual control isn't sufficient, they tend to rot inside

Beware disconnecting the battery. There's a special procedure to do it to avoid potential problems with the airbag module.

Water ingress into the engine bay and further into cables / modules are also known in the x250. No idea if Sevel managed to eliminate them. But I don't think so.

1, 2, 4 and 6 seem to be related to the Body Computer. Perhaps there is some condensation inside?

 

[jackwhoo]

What engine size / power

 

[jackwhoo]

Interior temp sensor?
If the exterior temp sensor , often fitted in door mirror, is not working it may stop the dpf regenerating.

 

[the green vanper]

Interior temp sensor?
If the exterior temp sensor , often fitted in door mirror, is not working it may stop the dpf regenerating.

As far I as understood, it didn't stop. It just started when the engine was running on idle while charging the leisure batteries. I do not own a diesel, but as far as I remember from the manual and different forums, it needs higher revs than idle to finish properly.

 

[charliebobgordon]

Interior temp sensor?
If the exterior temp sensor , often fitted in door mirror, is not working it may stop the dpf regenerating.

Hi Jack. It’s a 2.2 engine. I’ve heard about the door mirror sensor issue but have ruled that out because I’ve been told it only affects the vans with AdBlue. My van doesn’t have AdBlue. Although, I’ve ordered a new sensor anyway, as it would be nice to have the dash temp showing!

 

[charliebobgordon]

As far I as understood, it didn't stop. It just started when the engine was running on idle while charging the leisure batteries. I do not own a diesel, but as far as I remember from the manual and different forums, it needs higher revs than idle to finish properly.

Yes that’s right. I’ve managed to make that DPF light go off twice now by taking it on some high rev joy rides and for the time being it has stayed off. We’ve stopped idling the engine to charge the leisure batteries.

 

[jackwhoo]

Ford puma 2.2 engine.

Heads up - If the message "keep driving dpf cleaning" comes up regularly then it will need investigation. The message will go away even if dpf clean not completed .
On your engine there is a "5th injector " in the exhaust ahead of the dpf . During dpf regeneration this 5th injector is meant to flow heated diesel vapour into the dpf burning off accumulated soot. They have a habit of clogging and so not flowing diesel vapour leading to failed regeneration.
One of your codes hints at temperature too low for dpf regeneration.
I am not as confident as you regarding missing outside temperature signal not leading to dpf problems but glad you intending to fix it.

Best wishes
Jack

 

[charliebobgordon]

W

Ford puma 2.2 engine.

Heads up - If the message "keep driving dpf cleaning" comes up regularly then it will need investigation. The message will go away even if dpf clean not completed .
On your engine there is a "5th injector " in the exhaust ahead of the dpf . During dpf regeneration this 5th injector is meant to flow heated diesel vapour into the dpf burning off accumulated soot. They have a habit of clogging and so not flowing diesel vapour leading to failed regeneration.
One of your codes hints at temperature too low for dpf regeneration.
I am not as confident as you regarding missing outside temperature signal not leading to dpf problems but glad you intending to fix it.

Best wishes
Jack

Super useful diagnosis, thank you!

 

[theoneandonly]

Interior temp sensor?
If the exterior temp sensor , often fitted in door mirror, is not working it may stop the dpf regenerating.

Edit just noticed was a citroen/ ford engine not fiat so bellow not totally relevant


Only relevant to Adblu models.
Courtousy of @HughJampton
The information in the x/290 Converters Manual (available in downloads) implies that (at least for non Ad-Blu models, which it pre-dates) the external temperature sensor is a requirement only when the vehicle is fitted with Automatic Climate Control and/or the Comfortmatic gearbox.

Does it have significance in regeneration of X250 or earlier ? No it was an optional extra on the X250 many with and without but have the DPF.
I suspect the IAT (in MAF sensor) is used for the regen function, why? Because these are all important critical to the engine and are controlled by the engine ecu on the high speed can bus. The mirror sensor is controlled by the Body ECU on the lo speed canbus and is used by electronic climate control and the comformatic.
with the Adblue models there are even more temperature sensors( on the fiat they are in a separate Adblu module.)
The temp sensor in mirror has a significance in regeneration of adblu models definitely Peugeot Citroen models. Was this then inherited by the adblu fiats just using the pre existing adblu methodology?

Sorry for the extended explanation.

 

[the green vanper]

I’ve ordered a new sensor anyway, as it would be nice to have the dash temp showing!

If you don't have the ambient temperature displayed on the dash, you'll need to activate the function through MES. There is also a possibility there's a missing part of the loom (from the door to a connector in the drivers' side step, but it's a simple 2 wire connection).

 

[charliebobgordon]

If you don't have the ambient temperature displayed on the dash, you'll need to activate the function through MES. There is also a possibility there's a missing part of the loom (from the door to a connector in the drivers' side step, but it's a simple 2 wire connection).

I assume it was displayed originally but I assume the drivers side mirror was replaced with one that didn’t have a temperature sensor in. I can see ‘---°C’ showing on the dashboard currently.

 

[the green vanper]

I assume it was displayed originally but I assume the drivers side mirror was replaced with one that didn’t have a temperature sensor in. I can see ‘---°C’ showing on the dashboard currently.

Yes, so no need to use MES and add cables!

Normally, beside the hole in the mirror's bottom, there is a small hook that holds the sensor in place. But you could just glue it with some Sikaflex.

Those are of course photos of a LHD mirrors, but they are symmetrical

 

[charliebobgordon]

Thanks both for your help, it's been invaluable!

 

[charliebobgordon]

Hello. An update on this, I still haven't got the problem resolved, I was waiting until we're back in the UK at the end of May as it hasn't sent us into LIMP mode yet. However, yesterday we had some more symptoms. Once again, the DPF light appeared as it has been on and off since January a couple times a month, but this time it came on, and then a few miles later the red oil symbol started flashing. On restart, the DPF light has now gone away (I assume temporarily), but the flashing oil light now persists.

Note that a lot of the intermittent issues with other electrical components have disappeared (I assume just temporarily as we're now in warmer and dryer weather).

I checked the codes today, and in addition to P0423 and P1490 reappearing after being cleared previously, we have a new code which is P0490, AlfaOBD is also telling me Exhaust Gas Recirculation Control Circuit 'A' High, Signal amplitude > maximum and Error intermittent. I'm wondering if you could shed some light on this new code and whether getting the vapouriser replaced is going to solve this or it's a whole other issue? Thank you so much.

All fault codes say 'error intermittent', is that usual?

I wanted to wait until we're in the UK to get this sorted, as I know a DPF specialist I'd like to take it too. But beginning to wonder if we're going to make it before then!

 

[Anthony489]

Hi

Some background information that may help. The Citroen Relay / Peugeot Boxer and the Fiat Ducato were and are built in the same 'SEVEL' factory and share the same body but with some trim variations. Over the years, the engines have often differed, with Fiat offering their own engines (usually branded Mutijet) and Peugeot/Citroen branding theirs HDi. Current vans both have recently designed nominally 2.2 litre engines, but again they are different.

In the case of your van, the earlier 2198 cc engine is fitted and this is derived from the Ford Puma. The same engine was fitted to some Land Rovers. The emissions spec is likely to be Euro 5b, which needs a Catalyst, a DPF and a single EGR circuit. The EGR valve on these engines contains a small electric motor for the actuator, I believe the units are made by Delphi. This is different to the Fiat which used a vacuum operated EGR.

When you get a generic error code and look for the interpretation, it often gives the impression that it is an electrical fault. However, Fiat and Peugeot have been known to allocate their own meaning to error codes, so for example if the EGR valve is jammed and this is detected, the flagged error code will be the same as for a wiring fault to the EGR.

All these SEVEL built vans have poor sealing to the plastic scuttle under the windscreen, and thus deposit rainwater onto the electrics. If you are Mr Builder using your van every day it all warms up and dries out and no problem. If you are Mr Motorhomer and park up for weeks, you may get issues. I suggest you take a good look at fuseboxes etc and if possible look at the back. Any sign of white, green or black corrosion means you need to do a clean up job. In the worst cases people have had to replace them. Also, take off those multiway connectors and look for the same corrosion. A spray with proper switch cleaner/contact lubricant will help, but don't use ordinary WD40.

 

[the green vanper]

Hi

Some background information that may help. The Citroen Relay / Peugeot Boxer and the Fiat Ducato were and are built in the same 'SEVEL' factory

I'm not 100% sure if the triplets (Ducato / Boxer / Jumper or Relay) are still built by Sevel in Italy, as information on the internet are contradictory. I know that they are built in the former GM / Opel factory in Gliwice, Silesia, Poland (now owned by Stellantis) together with the other siblings (Opel / Vauxhall Movano and Toyota ProAce Max). Could be that both factories are being used in parallel. Could be that they are producing different versions.

There's also a factory in Mexico that makes the RAM Promaster for the US & Canada and the Southern America badged as a FIAT. And there was also a factory in RuSSia, some kind of joint venture with Severstal. No idea what happened to it since the beginning of the war in Ukraine.

All these SEVEL built vans have poor sealing to the plastic scuttle under the windscreen, and thus deposit rainwater onto the electrics.

Yes, that's the main cause. And it should be eliminated.

Water was also getting into the power steering fluid reservoir through a hole in the cap, which was replaced by a one with no hole at some time. Special plastic caps to be put onto the reservoir cap were also available.

There are several threads about all those problems on every Ducato / Motorhome forum.

 

[charliebobgordon]

Hello, me again!

I've just got the Diagbox software and tool. I wanted to read the differential pressure before I get the DPF filter cleaned. I was wondering if anybody knows if the readings I have currently are anything to be alarmed by? Based on all the issues with the atomiser (fifth injector) being blocked and DPF regeneration being unable to take place I was expecting the pressure readings to be high. Also was able to confirm, that according to Diagbox, the DPF has never been replaced.

Everywhere online they talk about mBar but the differential pressure only comes back on the tool in MilliVolts (mv) on my SID208 ECU. I saw a chart shared on another forum with a conversion, and based on that, my readings seem surprisingly low? I'm getting 0500mv when idling and 0800mv at 3000rpm. It also states the soot load is only 2%! The status of the oxygen sensor also reads 'Not OK', is that normal?

Any thoughts appreciated, thanks!

 

[jackwhoo]

Hello, me again!

I've just got the Diagbox software and tool. I wanted to read the differential pressure before I get the DPF filter cleaned. I was wondering if anybody knows if the readings I have currently are anything to be alarmed by? Based on all the issues with the atomiser (fifth injector) being blocked and DPF regeneration being unable to take place I was expecting the pressure readings to be high. Also was able to confirm, that according to Diagbox, the DPF has never been replaced.

Everywhere online they talk about mBar but the differential pressure only comes back on the tool in MilliVolts (mv) on my SID208 ECU. I saw a chart shared on another forum with a conversion, and based on that, my readings seem surprisingly low? I'm getting 0500mv when idling and 0800mv at 3000rpm. It also states the soot load is only 2%! The status of the oxygen sensor also reads 'Not OK', is that normal?

Any thoughts appreciated, thanks!

Have you replaced the 5th injector, or had it replaced?

If you have the van should go through the dpf regeneration process without problem and that cleans the dpf so you dint need to "get it cleaned"