Ibiza Armageddon

[StevenRB45]

Random thought do Seat not give you the top copy of the job sheet?

Every garage I've ever used did it in triplicate and added anything they'd been asked to check to it in case of disagreement. Or in the case of the computerised systems..add it as a comment.

Might be worth searching them out, of course their refusal to diagnose the problem may lead to it being a pointless exercise..almost like they didn't want to find out it was a manufacturing fault..

That's not a shot at the garage it's highly likely there's a TSB with if customer car has these symptoms, replace gearbox. Obviously that being the case they aren't going to run your bill up second guessing it. But them not opening it does mean there's less opportunities for comeback.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

@Pugglt Auld Jock The reported clonk might well be significant. The garage should have recorded it on their jobsheet for the mechanic to assess. That should be a record, reported under warranty. Hopefully on their computer, but may only be on physical jobsheet, hiding in an archive store somewhere.
If you're minded to write to SEAT, the actual dates of the services that the noise was reported on could be good ammunition. SEAT could, if they wished, prod the dealer for more details, and demand why the noise was not diagnosed.
Don't think mine clonks. Occasionally refuses to select reverse, and very occasionally tries to resist coming out again, but mostly fine, and very light to use.

Thanks PB, good advice. I am minded to write to them although I don't hold any great hopes of an avalanche of cash burying me! I keep all receipts for cars so should be able to put dates to that. Thanks for the idea.

 

[porta]

A surprising failure, and a reasonable contribution.

I'm not aware of VW gearboxes being weak, not heard any nasty stories.

A VW gearbox was used on the Maestro and Montego 1.3 and 1.6, and was a nice unit, once the selection issues were sorted. Rover fitted the linkage, then undersealed the cars. Can anybody guess why the linkage was sometimes a little tight?
I attended the Rover training school and took one apart and rebuilt it, probably around 1988, so my knowledge is not current, but it is likely they are much the same inside. Some of the gears are shrunk onto their shafts, requiring heating in an oil bath. Dealers were expected to buy an expensive oil bath, but many resisted. An ordinary chip fryer was fine, and seems to wirk with gear oil, although not suitable for chips afterwards. Most sat in the dealer unused.

Was there any signs of a leak? I doubt it, being Jock's, but the undertray might hide it well. I'd go with the earlier comment about it being faulty from new. Having spent many years dealing with warranty at a dealer, then moving to a large parts supplier to handle warranty from the other side, this level of contribution is about what I'd expect as a maximum. Often such contributions would be parts cost based only, so a third off the labour too is nice. Painful, but probably easier than rebuilding it at home. And a bonus, a longer holiday in Devon, with the wind howling and the rain coming sideways. (Sorry Jock)

My Fabia is currently on 54k, so I'll keep my fingers crossed. No nasty noises. That'll jinx it.

As I’ve mentioned before, brothers audi A4 spent more time in dealers than with him, mostly rear suspension issues but had a gearbox replaced…now has a merc
Mates 8 had a reconditioned gearbox put in just outside warranty period at an eye watering £18K, loves his VAG products still
Parents Polo auto did a self-destruct in the middle of sheepscar interchange, Leeds, just 2mths out of warranty, we did a lot of arguing to get a 1/3 contribution from VW who couldn’t have been less helpful, they bought a Kia
I only worked at a Seat dealership and jacked it on after 8ths…hated the things

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

As I’ve mentioned before, brothers audi A4 spent more time in dealers than with him, mostly rear suspension issues but had a gearbox replaced…now has a merc
Mates 8 had a reconditioned gearbox put in just outside warranty period at an eye watering £18K, loves his VAG products still
Parents Polo auto did a self-destruct in the middle of sheepscar interchange, Leeds, just 2mths out of warranty, we did a lot of arguing to get a 1/3 contribution from VW who couldn’t have been less helpful, they bought a Kia
I only worked at a Seat dealership and jacked it on after 8ths…hated the things

I actually quite enjoy driving automatics and, of course that's what I usually rent when over t'other side of the pond at my sister's place a couple of hours drive west of Boston Mass - and further south for the 5 years that my daughter and family lived in Southern Maryland - However it's quite surprised me how many I've had which aren't quite changing gear "properly" By which I mean either hanging on to lower gears too long, jerky changes, and other irritations. There are a lot of transmission shops over there who specialize in replacement transmissions almost as you wait! Don't know about prices, but I find anything over there where you have to employ someone to do something for you is expensive compared to over here. Thinking further on the automatics, The newer cars I've rented - probably with twin clutch, direct shift systems? seem to be "plagued" with the above mentioned problems more than the older torque converter epicyclic ones I would previously have rented?

£18 grand is "eye watering" and I'm sorry to hear of the lack of "enthusiasm" on VAG's behalf concerning your parents Polo. I must say I hardly had to do more than mention it to the good folks at Croyde for the 33% good will to be allowed. Maybe I should have pressed for more but I didn't want to maybe slow things down as we needed to be home as soon as reasonably possible for child care duties. I'm still minded to write to SEAT though - marshaling "the troops" as I speak. My older boy, after the engine problems he had with his Fabia Scout estate (1.6CR diesel) bought a new Kia Rio in 2017 and it's been depressingly reliable. They just get into it, turn the key, and go!

Anyway, on a happier note, departed Mrs j's sister's house about 09.30 yesterday and arrived safely back home early evening after a pretty uneventful journey. I wasn't particularly pushing it because of the new gearbox and we tend to stop every couple of hours or so to stretch our legs around the car park and visit "the facilities". Even so we managed it in a pretty standard, for us, nine and a half hours. We've discovered in the past that Sunday is a good day to travel traffic wise and so it was yesterday with only some slow running a couple of times in the midlands. Several very, and I mean VERY heavy showers. Quite short in duration but forcing us to reduce speed to under 50mph because, even with the wipers on fast. vision was restricted. Absolutely insane how many still plow on regardless at insane speed! More disturbingly we counted 5 cars broken down at the side of the motor way, one in the inner lane of a "smart", all lanes running, section. Although there was an emergency vehicle, either police or one of those highway vehicles that look a bit like a police vehicle, in the lane behind it with all lights flashing. Shockingly twice we saw vehicles driving in lanes with the red cross overhead making no attempt to get out of the lane and, on several occasions, whilst we were going at 70mph on the "cruise" were overtaken by the likes of Audis, Mercedes and one Jag going much much faster than we were. Numerous examples of poor lane discipline too. My, now deceased, brother in law was right when he said "drive as if everyone else around you is trying to have an accident with you! I've never been happier to be home!

 

[porta]

I have found US made autos, that have made it over here with little modification, have gear changes that sit inbetween our speed limits…my Jeep can’t make up its mind if it wants to go up or down at our speed limits, 30, 40, 50…but then, that does ensure I know wehn I’m creeping above, useful wehn Yorkshire is littered with roads that can take your license in single stretches…but the wife’s Italian built renegade just sails smoothly along

 

[StevenRB45]

To be fair heard some lovely VW customer care stories. A particularly galling one would be a family who got the timing belt replaced at a VW dealer on their Polo with OEM parts.

Two weeks later it stops dead, tensioner has failed, garage blames the quality of VW OEM parts will not pay, VW blames garage will not pay. Customer has a car with bent valves and a smashed piston..and no help from either.

So yeah it's probably going to be an exercise in catharsis more then anything else..but you only tend to hear from people with an axe to grind online when it comes to this sort of thing so you never know.

At least it's all fixed and happy now and your safely home.

 

[AndyRKett]

All good stuff chaps. You both make good points here. I think the offer is not particularly generous, although a hell of a lot better than nothing and I think that, having accepted their offer by settling the bill it's largely done and dusted now. However I think I might just write to them expressing my displeasure, if not disgust, at the box failing at such a low mileage and slip in reference to the fact that I'm a trained and qualified motor mechanic so should have at least some idea how to drive a vehicle without wrecking it! Probably the best I can expect will be a nice letter of apology and commiseration but I might get a wee surprise? Won't be holding my breath though.

This was my point, once they have extracted the money out of your wallet they are unlikely to give anything back, If you had either not paid the bill or the car was still on the ramp in pieces then your negotiating position is much better.

Hopefully you can enjoy the rest of your trip and have an uneventful trip back up north.

To be fair heard some lovely VW customer care stories. A particularly galling one would be a family who got the timing belt replaced at a VW dealer on their Polo with OEM parts.

Two weeks later it stops dead, tensioner has failed, garage blames the quality of VW OEM parts will not pay, VW blames garage will not pay. Customer has a car with bent valves and a smashed piston..and no help from either.

So yeah it's probably going to be an exercise in catharsis more then anything else..but you only tend to hear from people with an axe to grind online when it comes to this sort of thing so you never know.

At least it's all fixed and happy now and your safely home.

Technically speaking that is an easy argument to resolve, the liability lays with the garage who fitted the parts and we’re paid for the work, they need to remidy their work and then once they can actually establish the cause then they may be able to claim their losses back from VW. This is the risk you run using a third party garage, if they’d taken it to VW dealer to get the work done, then they’d have found it all under warranty, rather than a third party trying to wash their hands of it.

If no one is taking responsibility then the car owner would have to pay to get the car fixed, get an invoice and then make a claim against the garage for their losses. If it’s done this way the garage will have limited ability to claim that the part was the problem and not their fitting as they won’t have access to the part or be able to assess the damage, so they risk footing the whole bill in that instance

 

[StevenRB45]

Technically speaking that is an easy argument to resolve, the liability lays with the garage who fitted the parts and we’re paid for the work, they need to remidy their work and then once they can actually establish the cause then they may be able to claim their losses back from VW. This is the risk you run using a third party garage, if they’d taken it to VW dealer to get the work done, then they’d have found it all under warranty.

It was a VW dealer..that was the fun and games.

Neither side wished to pay as neither side wanted to admit liability.

Obviously while the argument took place...the customer had no car at all having arrived at this place by doing the right thing.

It's what is known as a really good customer experience.

 

[AndyRKett]

It was a VW dealer..that was the fun and games.

Neither side wished to pay as neither side wanted to admit liability.

Obviously while the argument took place...the customer had no car at all having arrived at this place by doing the right thing.

It's what is known as a really good customer experience.

I found that VW do keep quite a hold on their dealerships and when ever I had issues a quick call to VW UK would usually result in a call from the local dealership to apologise for the "misunderstanding" and groveling to put things right.

 

[StevenRB45]

I found that VW do keep quite a hold on their dealerships and when ever I had issues a quick call to VW UK would usually result in a call from the local dealership to apologise for the "misunderstanding" and groveling to put things right.

This may depend on the scale of the misunderstanding.

Perhaps they are less willing when the loser gets to pay for what will probably at a dealership end up being supply and fit a new long block. I suppose they could have tore it down and rebuilt but there's potential to damage to so many things it's pretty unlikely at dealer rates.

So either the customer says yes I'll commit to what 4k +? to rectify your error on the basis I might get some back, or the garage commits to the same on a promise VW might pay them back or nothing happens.

Garage aren't going to work on it without knowing they're going to get paid by someone and I doubt the customer is about to say "yes I know you've just destroyed my engine here have a blank cheque"...messy is the word I'd use.