Technical How to fit a 16v Fire engine in a Panda

[Dave Henry]

I think I only ended up using 4 or 5 of the original wires from the Y10 the rest is Punto. If you have all the engine loom up to and including the big round multi plug you will be a good way down the road. This will include all the starter and alternator wiring.

Good luck

Dave

 

[alexbpl]

1 Panda wire connects to Punto oil pressure sender (lights up dashboard warning light if oil pressure is low)

Another is spliced into the fuel priming wire (brown) so that it primes/pressurises the fuel system when the key is turned.

Think thats it for my 16v actually.

 

[jangcy]

Hello Friends!
I've got some problem with my 1.2 16V....it was working but not perfect
I've checked everything, changed sparks .... (tomorrow will change HT cables)
so....it's not reving smoothly
When I put foot down rapidly it's loosing power, almost stoping...when smootly it's not bad....however it's difficult start from traffic lights...sometimes when put foot down it's the same like I would switch engine off for 2 secs and then it's going....so I thought
no spark when put foot down (ECU gives more fuel, spark gone, or spark must be stronger, but HT are worn and spark going somewhere else)
OR no fuel (no fuel pressure)
so now I've got question
Should petrol goes in back fuel pipe at all the time or only when specefic situation?? In my engine it's not going back only it started when engine was warm and I took foot up after reving....
when I was doing engine check out in garage (not in car) sometimes fuel was going out from back fuel pipe, and sometimes not.
I'm worry if there is some problem with pressure regulator. However I've checked one at the end of injection rail and also checked outlet connector (no valve inside or nothing)
also I was worry that injector could be faulty, but I don't know how to check them.
I don't have proper internet connection but try to check it once a day...
Hope new HT will help... (sorry for language)

 

[alexbpl]

hmmmm

Do you mean the HT leads by HT?

If the HT leads are worn, they should have a problem working all the time and not just at certain times.

Sounds like you have a fuel problem, maybe the fuel pressure regulator has gone or the fuel pump connections have come lose and are dangling around when you accelerate hard.

It might even be a severe case of the dreaded Lambda sensor failiure that every Punto engine gets once or twice.

Is it worse when the engine is cold?

 

[jangcy]

HT leads

It's similar with cold and hot...

Not sure which one is fuel pressure regulator? (is it that thing at the end of injection rail with rubber pipe going from it to inlet manifold?) - I've replaced it to different one. Also I took out outlet injection rail connector and after that fuel was going out when I switched pump on for second...once I put connector back fuel was not coiming back till some situation when engine was going down....which is quite logic...to much fuel must back to petrol tank...however not sure...

I disconnected lambda for while and no different...

Will try to connect to PC and if any faults, but left adaptor in UK

Also I know that when there is coil/HT leads/sparks problem engine can't revs up....will work on stady revs but won't do any rapid action....

today will get new HT leads and will see...hope will be ok...if not I won't be able to take Panda to big autumn my meeting from my polish Panda Club

 

[jangcy]

HT leads made no different...
Now injectors and fuel pressure...everyday is worst...now I could even make test drive arond car park....everytime I press accelelator pedal down...engine almost stops or stoped...

 

[jangcy]

One fault found....air leak on inlet manifold (place where alu and plastic inlet manifold is connected)
Still reving problems...but will search later...

 

[jangcy]

Looks like it's OK now... air leak + air in fuel pump (full tank sorted it out)
Now just idling needs sorting out but this part will do on next visit...
The most important - I was able to go to Panda Big Meeting

 

[alexbpl]

Looks like it's OK now... air leak + air in fuel pump (full tank sorted it out)
Now just idling needs sorting out but this part will do on next visit...
The most important - I was able to go to Panda Big Meeting

haha good stuff

The idle speed cannot be adjusted though as it is all done via computer in the ECU.

 

[pandamaniac]

For all those who want a V12 in thier Panda.
Look at this


Titled worlds smallest V12 on You Tube

Pandamaniac

 

[alexbpl]

haha i'm afraid that it needs to be a rolls royce merlin engine or I'm not even going near a V12

 

[dufty01]

WAHOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

I had the ignition wire for the Punto loom connected up to the wire for the first part of key turn. That meant that when I was turning the key to put the ignition on - everything looked great and primed but when I turned the key fully to try and start it was cutting off the ignition to the loom, but still spinning the starter.

Hi,

I'm building (almost done!) my 1.2 16v Parade...

Just for info, the Orange wire from the 16v loom connector, does this need to go to Panda Parade ignition #2 (dash red lights) wire? Or, does it need to be spiced into ignition 2 & 3?

Also... The brown/white from the 16v loom connector did you connect this to the brown/white on the Panda, i.e. Fuel pump by battery?

Cheers
Dufty

 

[chlblnz]

Hi there, Thats a great thread you've created. Do you by any chance have a picture of where you ground the engine block for the starter motor? A friend of mine stuck my grinding disc through the engine block today so will need a new block and will try and do it again properly.
Cheers

 

[jangcy]

If I remember main ground cable which goes from battery is attached to on of the starter bolt. Original cable has another connecter in the middle which is bolted to body (more less it's above steering rack)...
Sometimes there is also copper flexible strip attached between engine block block and Mcpherson mounting nut (next to VIN number)
...

 

[chlblnz]

Hi, just want to say, that is an excellent post. I have a quick question which I did post on the punto pages but have not had a response. Do you have the block part number which is cast into the side of the block? I only ask as I have had an issue with my old block and have since bought a replacement. I've had it honed bought new oil seals and it was looking good until I tried to offer the rear crankshaft oil seal (flywheel side) up to the block, the two lower holes on the oil seal housing are in different places. My old block number is m657 46448008, new one m657 4653693. Everything else fits except this seal. Pulling my hair out as this was supposed to be a quick engine swap. Cheers. Will

 

[jangcy]

Last time I was driving my 16V I had some problem with accelerating. If I push food down to fast engine was "chocking" it was like too much fuel/wrong timing or too much air. If accelerating slowly it's not that bad.
I can't find what it is. I replaced all sensors apart from throttle body to see if there is any different.

Now I've got some question - what does that big air filter box do (original above engine)
also what exactly carbon "something" fuel filter does? It's that part which should be inside wing. In this swap we usually just block blue hose. Maybe it should be connected?

Thank you....

 

[lewey]

Last time I was driving my 16V I had some problem with accelerating. If I push food down to fast engine was "chocking" it was like too much fuel/wrong timing or too much air. If accelerating slowly it's not that bad.
I can't find what it is. I replaced all sensors apart from throttle body to see if there is any different.

Now I've got some question - what does that big air filter box do (original above engine)
also what exactly carbon "something" fuel filter does? It's that part which should be inside wing. In this swap we usually just block blue hose. Maybe it should be connected?

Thank you....

It's just as likely to be choking on too much air, so an air leak somewhere or injectors not injecting as good as they could, perhaps due to a weak pump or improper pressure regulation.

The charcoal canister is for storing fuel vapour. It allows the car to pass emissions regulations. Not using it won't cause the problems you describe, providing you have the normal vent on your fuel tank.

 

[jangcy]

...so an air leak somewhere or injectors not injecting as good as they could, perhaps due to a weak pump or improper pressure regulation.

Thank you...I had leak problem between plastic inlet manifold and aluminum part-I couldn't even start to drive, couldn't rev the engine...but I fixed it and was (almost) OK.
Filled full tank of petrol and then everything was perfect. Now problem back but there is maybe just 15 liters in tank. I'll try to fill it up again and see if will be better. If yes - you are right - injection or pump problem.
Previous owner fitted engine which was built for 1/4 mile race and said that he fitted 3 PSI fuel pump but maybe there is some problem anyway. I've got pump from Punto 16V which I used when was testing engine outside the car so maybe I’ll to fit it.
Anyway - I still didn't check/replace injections rail and pump (I also would like to check fuel pressure but I need to find some garage who would do it to me as I don't have tools).
Unfortunately currently on my scrap yard, there was NO Punto 16V Mk1 (only Mk2) so I couldn't get injection rail replacement...
I should get some results by the end of October

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

Thank you...I had leak problem between plastic inlet manifold and aluminum part-I couldn't even start to drive, couldn't rev the engine...but I fixed it and was (almost) OK.
Filled full tank of petrol and then everything was perfect. Now problem back but there is maybe just 15 liters in tank. I'll try to fill it up again and see if will be better. If yes - you are right - injection or pump problem.
Previous owner fitted engine which was built for 1/4 mile race and said that he fitted 3 PSI fuel pump but maybe there is some problem anyway. I've got pump from Punto 16V which I used when was testing engine outside the car so maybe I’ll to fit it.
Anyway - I still didn't check/replace injections rail and pump (I also would like to check fuel pressure but I need to find some garage who would do it to me as I don't have tools).
Unfortunately currently on my scrap yard, there was NO Punto 16V Mk1 (only Mk2) so I couldn't get injection rail replacement...
I should get some results by the end of October

Hmm... well 3 PSI fuel pump will be nowhere near enough for an injection engine. That will only supply enough for a carburettor; couldn't have been too successful on the 1/4 mile

Hope you get it fixed!

Si

 

[jangcy]

Sorry....not sure about pressure...I just called it like that...as far as I know Punto SPI has about 1 PSI and MPI engines need 3 PSI...
(or maybe it's not PSI but it's in "bar" ...
PS
Cabrs got about 0.3 (bar) if I'm right

Thanks