Technical How to fit a 16v Fire engine in a Panda

[lewey]

Arc is spot on. If no power to coil or pump when cranking, there is another issue, perhaps the crank sensor.

Also make sure you have the int and int/a connections correctly wired from your ignition barrel to the ecu. The int and int/a connections on the barrel provide 12v when key is turned to first position, but when you turn to the starting position, the int/a 12v line is dropped temporarily.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[alexbpl]

Well I have just aqquired another Punto loom for the very fair sum of £15.

I will try again tonight and see if a fresh loom makes any difference as I said in other posts that the loom that came with the engine has had work done on it, nothing drastic looking but if it has been repaired or dissected then it's very difficult (for me anyway!) to sus out what/why and how to take it back to original form.

If nothing works then I will type up a more in-depth review of what exactly is going on and how I've wired it up for power.

The only thing I can think of in relation to the crank sensor is that I am using the Panda TDC/crank sensor as I snapped the Punto sensor when trying to fit it. Maybe they cannot be interchanged, although they look and fit the same.

Thanks for the help though, I'll see what happens tonight

 

[alexbpl]

Ok

New loom fitted and it is still the same.

Engine turns, guages work, there is power to all the correct wires at the loom relay box but there is NO power to the coils once the key is turned.

Is it possible that my ECU has not been properly de-coded and will not let power out to the coils? Even though it has been tested & approved?

Have tried original punto TDC/crank sensor but there is still no power to the coils via the LT leads.

Lewey what exactly do you mean by 'int' and 'int/a'. I have not actually touched the ignition barel for any wiring, instead have used the orange ignition wire running from inside the car to behind the battery bay.

Damn EFI lol

 

[jangcy]

Hello
I didn't read all because it's lots now in this thread...I've just fitted 1.2 16V in Panda and also I managed to start engine couple of times outside car.
If I'm right when key wasn't properly put next to immo aerial (I've got immo) there was no power on coil (nothing on sparks) but I'm not for 100% sure if I could hear stepper engine and pump everytime I "switch ignition on" without immo key in right place....Can you hear stepper engine and pump?
I think you could be right...immo in ECU or crank sensor....without it you won't be able to start....have you got access to any fiat ECU reader?

 

[alexbpl]

No unfortunately I don't have access to a code reader, but hopefully someone will be able to tell me if no power to the coils means my ECU hasn't been properly de-immobilised.

Better had be! Cost £60 with delivery and VAT added.

So, even with 2 looms the same problem is common.

No power to coils when key is fully turned

Leaves 3 different options which I am currently narrowing down.

1) Relay box is broken
2) ECU has not been decoded properly
3) I have wired up to incorrect ignition wire

 

[jangcy]

For me was easier because I had all wires from Punto, including wires from ignition and I use only one cable (red or orange-not sure now - brow is going from aku (permament))
(pic 1)
also power for ECU (whole system) I connected using Punto fuse box (pic2) and in furure I will remove all unused wires....

 

[Dave Henry]

No unfortunately I don't have access to a code reader, but hopefully someone will be able to tell me if no power to the coils means my ECU hasn't been properly de-immobilised.

Better had be! Cost £60 with delivery and VAT added.

So, even with 2 looms the same problem is common.

No power to coils when key is fully turned

Leaves 3 different options which I am currently narrowing down.

1) Relay box is broken
2) ECU has not been decoded properly
3) I have wired up to incorrect ignition wire

Not sure if this helps but before I got my ECU decoded the fuel pump didn't work and there was no spark at the plug. Then when it came back decoded the fuel pump fired up and primed the system when the ignition was turned on, then when the engine was turned over there was a spark at the plugs and the pump started again.

My engine is a 8v and not a 16v so not sure if the immobilisers work the same. Hopefully it is an easy fix for you.

Cheers

Dave

 

[alexbpl]

WAHOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

It's fixed!

Basically - I'm a dip****.

But in my defense it's an easy mistake to make....

I had the ignition wire for the Punto loom connected up to the wire for the first part of key turn. That meant that when I was turning the key to put the ignition on - everything looked great and primed but when I turned the key fully to try and start it was cutting off the ignition to the loom, but still spinning the starter.

Giving the illusion that some pressure switch or another component was causing a total electrical cut-out.

Thanks to everyone that helped me out! I was completely stumped for the best part of 2 evenings.

Vman be aware of this! lol

Just need gearbox oil, an exhaust making and then a clean before shes back on the road.

Panda sport was pretty much spot on with his 'fortnight of evenings' prediction. Could have been waaay sooner without losing the exhaust manifold and having to find another loom.

 

[purple haze]

Well done...I've been reading all this with great interest...Top thread..

Arc, Dave and Lewey are the main guy's..:worship::worship::worship:

 

[alexbpl]

Well done...I've been reading all this with great interest...Top thread..

Arc, Dave and Lewey are the main guy's..:worship::worship::worship:

Damn straight, they must be part machine like the terminator

 

[VmanC]

WAHOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

It's fixed!

Basically - I'm a dip****.

But in my defense it's an easy mistake to make....

I had the ignition wire for the Punto loom connected up to the wire for the first part of key turn. That meant that when I was turning the key to put the ignition on - everything looked great and primed but when I turned the key fully to try and start it was cutting off the ignition to the loom, but still spinning the starter.

Giving the illusion that some pressure switch or another component was causing a total electrical cut-out.

Thanks to everyone that helped me out! I was completely stumped for the best part of 2 evenings.

Vman be aware of this! lol

Just need gearbox oil, an exhaust making and then a clean before shes back on the road.

Panda sport was pretty much spot on with his 'fortnight of evenings' prediction. Could have been waaay sooner without losing the exhaust manifold and having to find another loom.

Cheers Alex, I've made a note. Glad you've got it sorted.

 

[jangcy]

WAHOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

It's fixed!

GREAT SUPER EXTRA :slayer:

 

[alexbpl]

Finished the panda tonight about 7pm after constructing the exhaust and re-filling the gearbox. Just been doing shake down runs and spotting any problems with plumbing and gaskets.

First impressions are fast. Very fast.

Gave the local 'Peugeot 106 and Saxo club' a run for their money.

Was running with no air filter due to lack of having one as yet, and the engine sound was immense. Currently using standard panda backbox so it's pure engine sound for a while.

Have a small matter of bogging and stuttering running when loading the engine e.g- full throttle at the start of a gear, but it runs sweeeeet when the revs get high.

Also I have an oil leak from around the coil housing, so need to take it out and replace the gasket. Apart from that though, she's sweet as a nut

Anybody got any ideas on the bogging? I really need to get a fault code reader or similar for a Mk1 Punto but no idea on price.

Cheers

 

[VmanC]

good work Alex, I'm jealous now .

 

[lewey]

Nice one. Another 16v to play with. Yay! Do you have the ECU hooked up to the engine management error light in the dash? If so, is it on? If it isn't then a code reader probably won't give you the answer. It is likely to be a sensor though, perhaps the throttle potentiometer.

 

[alexbpl]

Nice one. Another 16v to play with. Yay! Do you have the ECU hooked up to the engine management error light in the dash? If so, is it on? If it isn't then a code reader probably won't give you the answer. It is likely to be a sensor though, perhaps the throttle potentiometer.

No I didn't hook the loom up to the error light, but might give it a go tonight actually and see if it comes on. Is there a way test or reset a sensor?

Oddly, the second Punto loom, which is the one fitted to the Panda, had no plug for the fuel vapour canister solenoid. It seemed that without the vapour pipe attached it was running a bit smoother at idle. Maybe the vacuum of the inlet manifold is pulling too much fuel vapour through at once and causing an over rich atmosphere in the engine which it doesn't like at full load.

I'll take the vapour pipe off for the drive home and see if it makes a difference. Stangely though, putting a blanking cap over it makes it run a bit rough, too.

Now I just need to adjust the clutch, get a cold air fed air filter and finally a remap!

Then in about 2 weeks I'll need a Punto gearbox lol

 

[lewey]

There are ways to test sensors electrically to certain extents, yes. You need to get the ECU read to start you down the right path hopefully. The throttle pot can be checked for voltage for example. Need to find out error codes first though. Also, as the engine has only been in five seconds, there could easily be something else a bit more obvious wrong that you should discover soon enough. The problem you describe could easily be a small air leak or something.

This is where the newer electronics really come into their own as you can fire off valves and sensors at will and get detailed airflow values/voltage/resistance values on your laptop without even having to crack out a multimeter.

 

[alexbpl]

I'll have a snoop around later, blank off any air leaks and see how it fares.

 

[happypaul]

This thread is awesome.. Its going to help me greatly in sorting out my plan to fit a 1242 16v into our 45s mk1 uno!

Although.. I just need to get this through my head....

Wiring... does much of the punto engine loom need to be linked into the uno car loom??

As I will be running the uno starter/alternator wiring, and the uno wiring for the oil pressure

Regards, Paul

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

As I will be running the uno starter/alternator wiring, and the uno wiring for the oil pressure

Why

I'd use all the Punto wiring loom tbh as its been designed to do the job