Technical How do I know if I got hydraulic tappets

[Fiatfarmer]

Alright, so no flush and new high quality synthetic oil and filters, but how do I get to the oil filter? It’s at the back of the engine and I can’t reach it while it’s sitting on its wheels.

Edit: is the 1170A1.046 engine a FIRE engine?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Hmm, How do I get at the oil filter? Can I perhaps assume you have absolutely no previous experience working on cars - I just find this a slightly strange question? It's been many years since I worked on the older pushrod engine but I seem to remember it was down the back towards the front of the block (the FIRE of course has it's very conveniently just behind the front valance - can't remember if the older one was easier to get at from the top or bottom? If from the top it often increases accessibility if the air filter housing is removed. If going in from the bottom I've never had any problems with most cars by jacking them up and using axle stands - Don't you dare go under it if it's just supported on the car's own jack will you? - If you have no suitable jacking and supporting equipment then go looking for a nice high curb and drive up it so that one side of the car is on the pavement and one side still in the road. This creates a nice gully under the car where you can slide under it and you can do the oil drain and filter change quite comfortably - best not to choose a rainy day!

EDIT. I just googled the engine - looks like access from above is limited - I'd guess you're going to be going in from underneath.

 

[David C]

1170A1.046 is the 899 pushrod engine. Not a FIRE engine.

On my 899 Cinq I could change the oil filter simply by turning the steering onto lock and reaching in through the right wheelarch.
Didn't even need to jack the car up.

 

[Fiatfarmer]

Hmm, How do I get at the oil filter? Can I perhaps assume you have absolutely no previous experience working on cars - I just find this a slightly strange question? It's been many years since I worked on the older pushrod engine but I seem to remember it was down the back towards the front of the block (the FIRE of course has it's very conveniently just behind the front valance - can't remember if the older one was easier to get at from the top or bottom? If from the top it often increases accessibility if the air filter housing is removed. If going in from the bottom I've never had any problems with most cars by jacking them up and using axle stands - Don't you dare go under it if it's just supported on the car's own jack will you? - If you have no suitable jacking and supporting equipment then go looking for a nice high curb and drive up it so that one side of the car is on the pavement and one side still in the road. This creates a nice gully under the car where you can slide under it and you can do the oil drain and filter change quite comfortably - best not to choose a rainy day!

EDIT. I just googled the engine - looks like access from above is limited - I'd guess you're going to be going in from underneath.

Well, I’ve got a little bit of experience with wrenching on cars, but it’s all with my current 899 sei, and I haven’t changed the oil by myself yet and my little tiny bit of experience is also the reason why I assumed the tappets were alright, I just saw it as a thingy too reduce maintenance and that it would work like it was intended, otherwise why do the effort too reduce maintenance if you only increase it?

Well… no, I absolutely don’t trust the jackstand which came with the car and while laying underneeth a car which is held by a handbrake and a couple of axle stands I get a bit nervous, yes, but we do have a proper jackstand and two axlestands, so if the job can’t be done one way, I’ll get underneeth it.

Wait a minute… so you’re telling me I’ve got old fashioned redneck technology in my car’s snout? (Pushrod)

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Well, I’ve got a little bit of experience with wrenching on cars, but it’s all with my current 899 sei, and I haven’t changed the oil by myself yet and my little tiny bit of experience is also the reason why I assumed the tappets were alright, I just saw it as a thingy too reduce maintenance and that it would work like it was intended, otherwise why do the effort too reduce maintenance if you only increase it?

Well… no, I absolutely don’t trust the jackstand which came with the car and while laying underneeth a car which is held by a handbrake and a couple of axle stands I get a bit nervous, yes, but we do have a proper jackstand and two axlestands, so if the job can’t be done one way, I’ll get underneeth it.

Wait a minute… so you’re telling me I’ve got old fashioned redneck technology in my car’s snout? (Pushrod)

Sounds like you're going to do Ok. Hydraulic tappets are Ok and many manufacturers, probably the majority now a days, use them because it all cuts down on labour at service time so they can claim their product is cheaper to maintain. I would argue that they are less precise than solid tappets though and can suffer from excessive leak down and pump up at high engine revs. However, having said that they are usually reliable and work fine. Solid tappets are old school but simple and very precise so I actually prefer them. At the end of the day though we've got to live with whatever the engine was built with so there's not really a choice unless you're spending a lot of money on a high performance engine build.

Good luck with the oil change. Do let us know what you find when you drain the oil - drain it into a clean container, let it sit for 10 to 15 minutes or so to allow any solids to settle and then pour the old oil into another container and have a look in the bottom of the, now empty, drain can for "foreigners". Hopefully all you'll see is a thin film of oil in the bottom of the container. What you don't want to see is little bright "sparklies" because that's usually soft metal from crankshaft main bearings or big ends. Little black "nuggets" that are soft and can be "squished" easily between your fingers are just sludge. You don't really want to see sludge because it means the oil change intervals have probably not been observed, but, of itself, I'd rather see that than the "sparklies". Please do let us know how you get on. By the way, the new oil filter - assuming it's a metal canister type - should have a small amount of engine oil smeared around it's sealing ring and then tightened, by hand only, until it's as tight as you can reasonably manage. Do not use a strap wrench or other tool to do it up "supertight" because you'll have great difficulty removing it next time you need to change it.

Good luck and best wishes
Jock

 

[Fiatfarmer]

Good afternoon all,

Last weekend I’ve changed the oil and spark plugs from my Sei and found out that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the oil, also found out that my suspicions of a leaking head gasket also weren’t true, since the oil was the deepest black a man could possibly imagine, no sparklies nor sludge, just great oil.

But on the other side I also found out that the aprox. 80k miles or, to be more precise, 127k km’s it’s wandered around the Dutch roades, it’s ran on the original set of spark plugs, luckily I had those lying around together with a new set of spark plug leads, which I didn’t have too use, since they came of perfectly.

First start up after the new oil and spark plugs it started way better, but ran about the same, and she still does!

Kind regards!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Good afternoon all,

Last weekend I’ve changed the oil and spark plugs from my Sei and found out that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the oil, also found out that my suspicions of a leaking head gasket also weren’t true, since the oil was the deepest black a man could possibly imagine, no sparklies nor sludge, just great oil.

But on the other side I also found out that the aprox. 80k miles or, to be more precise, 127k km’s it’s wandered around the Dutch roades, it’s ran on the original set of spark plugs, luckily I had those lying around together with a new set of spark plug leads, which I didn’t have too use, since they came of perfectly.

First start up after the new oil and spark plugs it started way better, but ran about the same, and she still does!

Kind regards!

Thanks for the update - looking good then?

 

[Fiatfarmer]

Thanks for the update - looking good then?

You’re welcome! Yeah, everything looking good! Oil filter came of without having too do any effort, just a strap wrench and of she came! Thank you all for your help!

 

[Fiatfarmer]

You came on here to ask for advice, have been given advice, but choose to argue with it, presumably because of your own thoughts and prejudices. If you just wanted to confirm your own assumptions, this is the wrong forum. That attitude does not sit well with those giving the benefit of their experience and wisdom, many of which have good memories. This can affect whether further advice is forthcoming.
The FIRE engine was a simple design, and has proven very reliable, and as a result is the most popular unit on here, and well loved. If serviced properly, with correct oil change intervals, the valve clearances rarely need attention. Searching YouTube, or anywhere else, will only find those who've needed to, as a video of not needing to adjust them is hardly worht posting.
The early Cinq 899 engines had troublesome hydraulic tappets, many needing replacement under warranty, and many more needing replacement later in life. The FIRE engines are significantly more reliable.

Bin scroling around the forum and just came across this thread again... you were telling me the 899 cinq tappets were rubbish and that they were improved in the later models, which makes the knowledge of them being rubbish completely irrelevant to my 899 sei, because my 899 sei has the improved ones. All I was asking was if my 899 sei had tappets, because all I knew is that those are a way to reduce maintanance, what I didn't know is that there are also good ones and bad ones (thanks for the knowledge anyway). But instead of getting a yes/no answer on my question, I get put in my place, for the so called wee bit of knowledge I have, which says tappets are good, because they reduce maintance. I don't like being put in my place for things I can't help because I don't know. It might've bin my way of articulation, if it was, please say so.

This message isn't meant to be insulting, if it is received like that anyway, i'm sorry, but I just wanted this to be said. Thank you for your understanding.