Technical Help needed.

[perthpanda]

Hey guy. New to the forum, been hanging around for a while tho.

My 07 panda 100hp has developed an issue over the last few days.
It's struggling to get in to gear while running, but engages when switched off however with the pedal pressed down wants to roll on tickover with the handbrake off.
My friend and I had a look in the dark and have diagnosed the clutch cable but was wondering if anyone has another idea or any similar problems.
Is it an easy fix??

Thanks
Niall

 

[portland_bill]

Clutch is apparently dragging, not freeing off as it should when pedal pressed. Just like holding it on the bite point.
If it was a cable, adjustment might be the answer. Sadly, it is hydraulic, so a bit more complicated.
Could be hydraulic leak or seals worn, so cylinder not moving far enough.
The pivot shaft for the release bearing has bushes that can wear. Could be these.
Or this could indicate requires a new clutch.

Oil leaking onto the clutch plate can also cause this type of symptom.

 

[perthpanda]

Clutch is apparently dragging, not freeing off as it should when pedal pressed. Just like holding it on the bite point.
If it was a cable, adjustment might be the answer. Sadly, it is hydraulic, so a bit more complicated.
Could be hydraulic leak or seals worn, so cylinder not moving far enough.
The pivot shaft for the release bearing has bushes that can wear. Could be these.
Or this could indicate requires a new clutch.

Oil leaking onto the clutch plate can also cause this type of symptom.

Thanks Bill

I'm not the moat technically minded person when it comes to the mechanics of my car, I feel lest of a man haha.
Saying that I did get my head in there and looked at all the moving parts I could see when the clutch and gears were being played with.
How do I go about checking for leaks in the seals? I've checked the fluid level and it's still on the max. Would doing a fluid change aid any issues?

Thanks again, this is why I love forums!

 

[babbo_umbro]

Try giving the clutch pedal two or three quick pumps and see if that stops the dragging - would show you that it's a hydraulic problem.

 

[perthpanda]

Try giving the clutch pedal two or three quick pumps and see if that stops the dragging - would show you that it's a hydraulic problem.

Is that a long term fix ;-)
What should I be looking for, I think I read someone saying if the master cylinder leaking it'll show in the footwell? Is that right?

Thanks again.

 

[babbo_umbro]

Is that a long term fix ;-)
What should I be looking for, I think I read someone saying if the master cylinder leaking it'll show in the footwell? Is that right?

Thanks again.

No - but should help you to diagnose the problem.

 

[portland_bill]

Pumping the pedal quickly can temporarily overcome any air in the system, pushing the release arm further. If this action results in easier selection, this shows that the problem is most likely hydraulic. If there is no change, problem will be mechanical and will require gearbox out to diagnose and rectify.

If problem is hydraulic, then you'd need to investigate master or slave cylinder.

If the seals in the slave are worn and not sealing properly, there would normallybe some evidence of a leak. Peel back the outer dust seal, it should be dry inside, or at worst only damp. If wet, replace the cylinder.

The master cylinder is a little more difficult to diagnose with certainty. Worn seals, can show a leak, which may, like the slave, show behind the dust seal at the pedal. Sometimes this can leak down behind the carpet and not show, so you'd need to get your head up under the dash by the pedals. Have a helper nearby who can pull you out if you get stuck, as it can sometimes be very difficult to get out again from the confined space. (Some swearing may help) Often a worn master cylinder will just push the fluid back into the reservoir, rather than pushing down the line to the slave. Sometimes this can be seen as bubbles in the reservoir as the pedal is pushed, so you need that assistant again.

 

[perthpanda]

No - but should help you to diagnose the problem.

Okay. Should the engine be running? What am I looking for out of the ordinary? Am I listening, feeling, seeing?
Told you I'm not technical haha.

 

[portland_bill]

If the engine is running, pumping the pedal and trying to engage a gear will show whether pumping has temporarily overcome the selection issue. Without it running, you may not be able to feel whether there is a difference.

If after that, you decide to investigate fluid leakage at either cylinder, turn the engine off.

 

[perthpanda]

Last night I started her up and done as suggested.
A few pumps later and no difference.
With the clutch pressed and trying to engage a gear the car is tugging forward like it was on its biting point.
So does this mean it's something more mechanical?
Appreciate all your help guys.
Niall

 

[babbo_umbro]

Last night I started her up and done as suggested.
A few pumps later and no difference.
With the clutch pressed and trying to engage a gear the car is tugging forward like it was on its biting point.
So does this mean it's something more mechanical?
Appreciate all your help guys.
Niall

Is there a rumbling noise from under your Fiat when you press the clutch pedal? If so, it's probably a failed bearing in the release mechanism.

Having said that, from what you've indicated it's a gearbox off job - at which point the cause of the problem should be obvious. Bad luck.

 

[varesecrazy]

Is there a rumbling noise from under your Fiat when you press the clutch pedal? If so, it's probably a failed bearing in the release mechanism.

Having said that, from what you've indicated it's a gearbox off job - at which point the cause of the problem should be obvious. Bad luck.

hi,
all good valid points..,

just 1 thing I've NOT seen covered,
have you actually checked the reservoir for the clutch fluid?

if the level has significantly dropped ( due to a leak) you may not have enought fluid to actually release the clutch fully,

I have come across systems before where the supply pipe has broken down and obstructed the flow of fluid:bang:
Charlie

 

[perthpanda]

I've checked the fluid level and it's still on the max.

I did check what I assumed was the clutch fluid reservoir at the top right of the engine bay, it had a yellow cap with "dot 4 only" on it. It seemed logical that was it as it was above all the moving parts when I pressed the clutch and move the gear stick.

 

[perthpanda]

Is there a rumbling noise from under your Fiat when you press the clutch pedal? If so, it's probably a failed bearing in the release mechanism.

I didn't notice any rumbling noises, I'll give that a go tonight.