Technical Help! DIY Panda Gearbox Replacement

[OceanWanderer]

Hi All

With my latest Panda misadventure meaning the removal of the gearbox, I have got to a point where I am well and truly stuck and hope someone can assist! For those who missed my last thread the gearbox literally went bang and locked up with oil leaking profusely from the mating surface between bell housing and engine. Further investigation showed that the gearbox oil is clean (no metal particles), the drive shafts are not broken or damaged - so I am leaning towards either the "big" diff bearings or possibly a broken diff... either way until I get the box out I wont know.

So far I have been able to do the following:
1.Remove the air box
2.Remove the battery and tray
3.Remove the clutch slave cylinder from the top of the gearbox
4.Remove the rear gearbox to chassis arm strut
5.Remove drive shafts (sadly the cups remained in the gearbox)
6.Remove the gearbox side top mount (2 x nuts & 1 x extremely tight bolt)
7.Remove the 4 x 19mm bolts around the top of the gearbox
8.Removed all bolts on the lower side of the gearbox 15/17mm

As far as I can tell there are no bolts at the back of the gearbox - is this correct?

The ePER CD says to remove the starter, for the life of me I cannot find it, roughly where is it and does it need to be removed?

I noticed in a diagram that there are locating dowels that hold the gearbox, how tightly do these dowels hold the gearbox in place?

I have been watching a couple of general FWD gearbox removal video on YouTube and once unbolted the gearbox seems relatively easy to remove - is this the case?

I have stopped for tonight as I got to the point where I was thinking tapping it with a 4lb hammer was a good idea!

Thanks in advance for any tips and tricks!

Cheers

David

 

[jrkitching]

Have you downloaded a copy of eLearn for the Panda (Fiat's hypertext workshop manual)?

It tells you pretty much all you need to know - including all the torque settings for the critical bolts.

You can find one in the downloads section.

 

[OceanWanderer]

Hi JrKitching

Thank you for the quick response, yes, I downloaded and reviewed the manual before I started and although very useful it does not provide the detail I am after... after talking to my Dad it would appear I must have missed a bolt somewhere, I will climb back under the car tomorrow

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi JrKitching

Thank you for the quick response, yes, I downloaded and reviewed the manual before I started and although very useful it does not provide the detail I am after... after talking to my Dad it would appear I must have missed a bolt somewhere, I will climb back under the car tomorrow

hi
starter is at REAR of engine,normally bolted through bell housing with 3 x M8 bolts

have you got the M6 bolts out from edge of SUMP / bell housing joint..??
( metal strip plate)

 

[OceanWanderer]

Hi VarseCrazy

Thank you for the response! I will have another look tonight for the starter - I honestly cant believe it is so hard to locate.

No, I have not removed the M6 Bolts between the sump and bell housing... another job for tonight!

Thank you again!

David

 

[OceanWanderer]

Thanks to all who responded! It looks like, the big outer bearings have quite literally disintegrated! The diff housing is full of metal and the bearing retainer shell quite literally wobbles on the rollers...

The Panda does indeed have an extremely tiny starter and it does sit behind the engine (mean was only bolted in with two bolts and one went from the clutch side to the starter and one from the starter to the clutch). I did not have to disconnect the starter to remove the bell housing.

My car was also missing the steel plate.

Thanks again! Now to figure who can source and replace the bearings.... ugh

 

[jrkitching]

Now to figure who can source and replace the bearings....

Personally I wouldn't bother; I'd be looking for a secondhand 'box complete; they're not generally that expensive and who knows how much collateral damage your existing 'box has suffered.

That said, I remember doing something similar to an Austin 1100 over 40 years ago; the replacement secondhand 'box lasted about a year, then I took them both apart and rebuilt one using the best components from each! IIRC my repair held for about another year, then I scrapped the car...

 

[varesecrazy]

Personally I wouldn't bother; I'd be looking for a secondhand 'box complete; they're not generally that expensive

cheap in the UK.., but maybe a lot trickier in ZA

 

[OceanWanderer]

Hi VareseCrazy & JrKitching

Thank you once again for your very prompt responses, greatly appreciated!

When this all happened dropping a replacement gearbox in was my basic train of thought. Sadly VareseCrazy is correct, the supply on such gearboxes is scarce, so far I have been able to locate two at the same scrap dealer condition, how they got there and mileage unknown - they cost R4500 a piece. Although when the exchange rate is considered that is £200 in real terms that is more like £450.

I did stumble across a repair kit for the C514 so thought that may be a more economical option (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fiat-Brava-...ing-Rebuild-Overhaul-Repair-Kit-/150977509393).

Cheers

David

 

[portland_bill]

That kit looks good.
The bearings will all be standard types, so available from any bearing specialist, if such things exist in SA. The seals are of course less likely to be standard types.

All the bits are available from your Fiat dealer, if you have one, or use ePER and find the part numbers.

Probably a good idea to at least pop the main housing off and check for debris damage in the main box, or at least to clean it thoroughly.

 

[OceanWanderer]

Thanks for the response Portland Bill, sadly upon closer inspection I found this huge crack in the main casing!

I tried to split the bell housing from the casing but something would only allow about an inch of separation and I cant find any online resources as to the correct procedure to strip the gearbox...

 

[varesecrazy]

look in the GUIDES for a cinqecento g-box strip by whitz

Charlie

 

[whitz]

To the left of the gearbox filler plug there is a 13mm bolt that holds the reverse idler gear shaft in place this will be stopping you.
I would also recommend getting a reconditioned gearbox off eBay for about 260 quid as it's not economical to repair your gearbox with that amount of damage

 

[varesecrazy]

Thanks for the response Portland Bill, sadly upon closer inspection I found this huge crack in the main casing!

I tried to split the bell housing from the casing but something would only allow about an inch of separation and I cant find any online resources as to the correct procedure to strip the gearbox...

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