Technical Head repair

[bandido41]

Hey everyone, a friend of mine has a mark 1 1600 brava that the head gasket has gone on it does anyone know what it should cost to repair the head gasket and possibly the head, i think the mechanic is ripping him off as they charged him £400 to remove the head and gasket and they quoted £1500 to repair the car (the head was apparently pressure tested already found to have no cracks and in good condition but yet they say the valves need to be redone is this likely or do is it possible that they are just feeding my friend stories as he doesnt know much mechanically?)Any help and guide lines would be greatly appreciated i am thinking of repairng the car for him but since the head as been removed im not sure if its a good idea as i am not to sure about the old timing marks.

 

[jug]

£400 just to remove the head? why on earth did he agree to that!! it should only cost £400 to do the whole repair. valves are not needed.

 

[bandido41]

He didnt agree to it thats what they charged him when they told him to pick up the car they had told him that initially before he took the car it would be roughly £400 for the repair afterwards they told him they had the head tested and the head was fine but it needed valves that was when they asked him to pick up the car. How easy would it be to check the timing marks if you hadnt seen them prior to removal?

 

[Gti180dom]

New valve stem oil seals come with the head gasket set so its best to do them rather than leave them out, that way your getting a full top end rebuild.

Still, £400 is a lot of money just to strip it down, but it sounds like its too late.

 

[bandido41]

I can understand if it was just the stem seals but what they said is he needs the actual valves, now surely if the valves were affected the head would be as well?

 

[jug]

if the valves were an issue he would have noticed compression loss problems before the head gasket issue, for example rough running, erratic idle, poor performance, and generally a very unhappy motor. if you have bent valves, or the valves arent sealing, you know about it.

 

[bandido41]

Im not to sure if he had any of those faults to be honest as far as i can remember he complained thatthe car overheated when his missus drove it the one time and it started mixing oil and water and that was when he took it to the mechanic.

 

[jug]

sounds like a perfectly normal head gasket failure, which never requires valves.

either someone has damaged the valves after the head has been removed, or they're trying to pull a fast one and the valves are fine, or they did the whole repair as quoted but got the timing wrong, so when they tried to start the engine it bent the valves.

to find out what has actually happened, i'd ask for the head saying it is getting inspected by an independant 3rd party, as advised by a solicitor who is a family friend. if they're trying to be naughty that should scare them. then take the head to another garage and ask them to check the valves (or look yourself). if they are bent now you can be fairly sure they were not bent before the head was removed, in which case citizens advice is the first place to go. if the valves are fine they are still in the wrong and i would still go to citizens advice to see what further aciton can be taken, such as demanding the work is completed as quoted, or getting at least a partial refund.

 

[bandido41]

He got the head when he got the car back i hacent actually looked at it but i will try and see or ask him to take it to someone else to have a look but hadn't thought of citizen's advice to be honest but if the valves were bent due to them getting the timing wrong how would he be able to prove it?

 

[jug]

proof is difficult. thats why you need professional advice.

 

[bandido41]

One other question jug, would a head from a mark 2 bravo (1600) fit on a mark 1 bravo (1600) or are they different?

 

[jug]

the head would fit, the only difference i've found is the upper inlet manifold (and the sensors on it), injectors & fuelrail, throttlebody (and iscv on it) and other bits and bobs that bolt on. it would be wise to swap all these bits over, if you buy a "naked" head you can then fit all your parts onto it. the only other possible probs i can see is any other sensor differences (e.g. cam sensor). a quick look at the manuals suggests this will not be an issue.

 

[bandido41]

Thanks i think i will be going to be looking for a 1600 head this weekend for him or depending on price might just get the whole engine instead i will look for a nice back smash bravo/a to get the engine fom and then just do a cam belt change and it should sort him for a while.

 

[jug]

check his valves are actually bent first, would be a shame to waste a perfectly good head. just rotate a cam and watch the valves, its easy to spot damage, the valves will not sit right in the valve seats when they close. and the valves will usually have impact marks on them where they hit the pistons.

 

[bandido41]

Cool thanks for the tip i was a bit dubious on how to tell if the valves were damaged with the head still on the car turns out its been re assembled minus the rocker cover.

 

[jug]

Cool thanks for the tip i was a bit dubious on how to tell if the valves were damaged with the head still on the car turns out its been re assembled minus the rocker cover.

oh the head is back on! in that case its harder to spot valve damage because you cant see the valves. (and it strongly suggests the garage bent the valves by getting timing wrong, why else would they fit everything except rocker cover?)

if they've left the timing belt on, and the timing is out, that would be perfect evidence that they bent the valves.

PM me the garage's details please.

 

[bandido41]

i will try get the details from my mate and i will pm them to you apparently they are supposed to be a very reputable garage which imo they are not i am hoping the timing belt is still on and they havent just put the head back on i will be picking the car up on saturday therefore i will be able to have a proper look if the belt is off i will take the head off and turn the cam i think at some point the car started but it was sounding like a tractor and then after it was switched off it wouldnt start again it just sounds like the battery is dead.