Technical Grande punto 2008 not starting

[imranali333]

Got a 2008 1.2 Grande punto, my wife was driving and car stalled and she tried starting it in gear without the clutch down and obviously never started, so tried again but nothing just a weird squeaky clicking noise coming but not turning over, sometimes no noise at all but sometimes strange noise similar to starter motor issue but not that common clicking noise we hear with faulty starter motors, so bump started it and got gone, checked battery and that is good, so took it to 2 garages and they said starter motor but they are busy and can’t do it, found a garage and bought starter motor and they fit it, car started perfectly first time, it started so quickly and smoothly first time, he bought the car out the garage and gave me the key so I tried to start it and same issue again, the cars in the garage but they said they can’t find a issue.
Diagnostic doesn’t reveal anything. I was wondering if anyone knows what to check next as car just either makes that squeaky clicking noise or nothing at all, no warning lights on dash but car will bump start. Hope someone can help

 

[GrandePunto PL]

How can we help you, if professional garage can't find what's wrong?
Go to another, different workshop. Find less clueless ("wanna-be") "mechanic".
This is very simple car. And basic rules are the same for all cars (Timing, Compression, Ignition, Fuel, Air), principle of operation.

Plus schematic, electrical stuff. Available here. Show them the link, so they can learn more about Grande. Clearly they are not familiar with the brand and model.
https://aftersales.fiat.com/elearnsections/main.aspx?nodeID=199001396&languageID=2&markID=1&modelID=199000000&valID=199000000&prodID=199000000&modelName=Fiat - 199 - Grande Punto&langDesc=English&sectionName=Impianto Elettrico&validityName=1.2 8v

Make them check basics of power delivery (battery, alternator, main ground, main fuse/relay box - corrosion).
https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-punto/318839-electrical-gremlin-thread.html

 

[AnthonyH]

Probably the battery, or the earthing wire attached to the battery.

 

[imranali333]

I think I’ll just take the car back and check it myself, they said today the electrician looking at it now but I’m not hopeful, I’ve got the old starter here and I checked it and seems to be working fine, tried it with 12 volts and solenoid and motor is working , just one thing I’m not sure about, in the picture I’ve got the probes, the black probe is ok the wire coming from the motor and the red probe is on the point where the first wire goes on, then the plastic piece goes on next and last the main power wire, both of them points where I have the probes are reading short and I’m not sure if that’s meant to read short ?
I know it’s a simple car and if the starter and battery is ok then it’s got to be a wiring or ignition issue as there’s not much that can cause this issue.
I might have to get the car back and check it myself but I’m not sure if the 2 points on the starter are meant to be both shorted and they both shorted to the ground on the starter, I presume where I got the red probe is the ignition wire that goes there. Where the long thread is the main power cable

 

[imranali333]

Quick update, I phoned the garage and he said it will starts sometimes but sometimes it won’t, he said possibly the flywheel but he will check tomorrow, if it is the flywheel then I don’t think it’s worth repairing

 

[GrandePunto PL]

At least take a pictures of the fault, damage...

Starter coils/windings are low resistance, so regular multimeter will tell "short" (which is not true).

 

[imranali333]

the starter got replaced and I tested old starter and seems to work fine,I done a bench test and solenoid and starter is working, teeth on starter seem fine, but I’ll show a picture, I wasn’t sure if the 2 points are meant to be connected to ground.
I got the car back they never checked the flywheel, it starts they said sometimes it don’t, I tried it and it started fine first time last night, today I tried and it started but as it started made a screeching noise which it didn’t before, drove it a bit and tried to start and it didn’t start and just load screeching noise so turned the ignition off and tried and again and it started fine, I don’t know what they done but now I’m getting these issues with screeching noise on startup or no start and screeching and sometimes it’s fine, hopefully someone can help

 

[AnthonyH]

Did you startup with a known good battery?

Did you check startup with an extra earth wire?

Is the screech noise coming from the starter or alternator?

 

[imranali333]

I’ve ordered a battery tester which will arrive tomorrow, the garages said the battery is good but I will check it myself, the earth wire they said was fine but I’m going to look into it myself but weather been horrible so never got round to it today.
The screeching noise is something new as it only started after I got the car back from garage, so need to look into where it’s coming from, it’s a brand new starter and the screeching doesn’t always happen but will check tomorrow where the sounds coming from

 

[AnthonyH]

I had screeching from the starter earlier in the year. Changing the starter did fix the problem. However subsequently i discovered my battery was at only 30% health, so its quite possible the starter was fine and i just needed a new battery.

I don't know what type of battery tester you've ordered but to be effective it'll need to be able to do a crank test and give you the health of the battery as a percentage.

 

[imranali333]

Yes I ordered one that does crank test, the scratching coming not from the alternator area but sound coming from stater motor area, it’s brand new starter, sometimes no screeching and sometimes it does screech, I can’t see the negative wire to cause such a issue so don’t know what else to check

 

[AnthonyH]

A poor earth causes many many problems on the grande punto. And i'd say every punto has a poor earth problem, sooner or later. I have 3, yes 3, earth wires.

 

[imranali333]

A poor Earth can cause screeching noise from starter ?

 

[GrandePunto PL]

How many times we must repeat the same thing: rule out the BASICS rigorously - battery, ground wires, alternator.
The "Holy Trinity" of the electrical system. You check, measure, clean those, without questioning/arguing. This is simple car (no "mysteries" there).
The 4th thing is a starter (are you 101% sure it's "brand new" and good, proper type and wired correctly?).
Then other stuff (plugs/sockets, switches, relays, fuses).

 

[AnthonyH]

A poor Earth can cause screeching noise from starter ?

Yes.

 

[imranali333]

How many times we must repeat the same thing: rule out the BASICS rigorously - battery, ground wires, alternator.
The "Holy Trinity" of the electrical system. You check, measure, clean those, without questioning/arguing. This is simple car (no "mysteries" there).
The 4th thing is a starter (are you 101% sure it's "brand new" and good, proper type and wired correctly?).
Then other stuff (plugs/sockets, switches, relays, fuses).

Look I can only go on what the garage told me so far as the weathers not good enough for me to check, they told me they ruled out all that so that’s why I’m asking so I don’t know why you speaking to me like that. Yes the starter was changed infront of my eyes and I’ve got the old one and I’m the one that purchased it from GSF car parts , at the moment I can’t say it was wired correctly as I can’t check it yet, but there’s only 2 wires and if it wasn’t wired correctly then I presume it wouldn’t work at all and you can’t get the wires the wrong way round as impossible to fit them wrong way round.
That’s why I ordered a battery tester to check the battery myself.

 

[Dlub]

Had a non start on my grande Punto a few months ago. Had to push start the car a few times. The starter motor clicked, screeched over the last couple of months, but intermittently and I always got it started, but then a morning - nothing. I thought it was a bad solonoid or battery. No errors in ecuscan or display.

When measuring with a multimeter the connections were fine and earthing were solid when inspected and pulled. After no success with a new battery and a new starter motor, I fitted a new ground wire from the Battery to the block and to my surprise the car started better than ever before. The connection to the engine block were apparently bad, even though I tested them, but in a way so a high current couldn’t flow.

Try to fit a new cable from the battery to the block. Another way to test this is to jumpstart the car with ground connected to the block instead of the battery (as you always should)

 

[AnthonyH]

To be clearer,

I'm talking about the earth wire from the battery to the car chassis and then on to the gearbox.

Not the negative wire leading to the starter.

They're different wires.

 

[imranali333]

Had a non start on my grande Punto a few months ago. Had to push start the car a few times. The starter motor clicked, screeched over the last couple of months, but intermittently and I always got it started, but then a morning - nothing. I thought it was a bad solonoid or battery. No errors in ecuscan or display.

When measuring with a multimeter the connections were fine and earthing were solid when inspected and pulled. After no success with a new battery and a new starter motor, I fitted a new ground wire from the Battery to the block and to my surprise the car started better than ever before. The connection to the engine block were apparently bad, even though I tested them, but in a way so a high current couldn’t flow.

Try to fit a new cable from the battery to the block. Another way to test this is to jumpstart the car with ground connected to the block instead of the battery (as you always should)

I will be checking the wire myself next as garage said it was good, I’ll try adding a new wire aswell to see if that helps.

 

[imranali333]

To be clearer,

I'm talking about the earth wire from the battery to the car chassis and then on to the gearbox.

Not the negative wire leading to the starter.

They're different wires.

Yes I understand that thanks, I will be checking that