Hi, Does the -13 suffix on the code point to something more specific?
Technical Glow plug relay location
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Technical Glow plug relay location
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Hi
The 6th and 7th digits of the 7 digit DTCs used from 2013 onwards normally have the following meanings, but there is nothing to stop Fiat from allocating them to something else, so treat with caution:
00 = Not specified
04 = Open
11 = Short to ground
12 = Short to B+
13 = Open
14 = Short to ground or open
15 = Short to B+
16 = Circuit voltage below threshold
17 = Circuit voltage above threshold
18 = Current below threshold
31 = No signal
44 = Data memory failure
47 = Controller failure
49 = Internal electronic failure
51 = Not programmed
62 = Signal comparison failure
64 = Plausibility failure
72 = Actuator stuck closed
74 = Actuator slipping
77 = Commanded position not achievable
7E = Actuator stuck on
1A = Circuit resistance below threshold
1C = Voltage out of range
1D = Current out of range
23 = Signal stuck low
24 = Signal stuck high
27 = Single rate of change above threshold
29 = Performance signal invalid
2A = Stuck in range
2B = Signal cross coupled
2F = Signal erratic
7F = Actuator stuck off
85 = Signal above allowable range
87 = Missing communication message
93 = Performance no operation
96 = Component internal failure
9C = Low insufficient flow
9E = Stuck on
The 6th and 7th digits of the 7 digit DTCs used from 2013 onwards normally have the following meanings, but there is nothing to stop Fiat from allocating them to something else, so treat with caution:
00 = Not specified
04 = Open
11 = Short to ground
12 = Short to B+
13 = Open
14 = Short to ground or open
15 = Short to B+
16 = Circuit voltage below threshold
17 = Circuit voltage above threshold
18 = Current below threshold
31 = No signal
44 = Data memory failure
47 = Controller failure
49 = Internal electronic failure
51 = Not programmed
62 = Signal comparison failure
64 = Plausibility failure
72 = Actuator stuck closed
74 = Actuator slipping
77 = Commanded position not achievable
7E = Actuator stuck on
1A = Circuit resistance below threshold
1C = Voltage out of range
1D = Current out of range
23 = Signal stuck low
24 = Signal stuck high
27 = Single rate of change above threshold
29 = Performance signal invalid
2A = Stuck in range
2B = Signal cross coupled
2F = Signal erratic
7F = Actuator stuck off
85 = Signal above allowable range
87 = Missing communication message
93 = Performance no operation
96 = Component internal failure
9C = Low insufficient flow
9E = Stuck on
Hi, Thanks Anthony, that's good info. so if its the feedback (Pin 9 Engraved D1 Whi/Red Fault Report to ECU, High 12V = Fault) that is open circuit does that mean the ecu is not seeing a high or low voltage and can't determine the state of the relay. due to no feedback ?
I am going to do a current test this morning to each individual glow plug to see if there is much difference. I have a Sealey TA125 current tester so I can de-rate the F02 50a fuse down to say 20a and link each G1-G4 pin in turn to pin 30.+ 12v. I won't need the ignition on so a short test (few secs) should be ok. I can do this from the relay base quite easily, I need to know exactly what is wrong before I have to strip the front of the vehicle off and what ever else to get to the glow plugs.
I am going to do a current test this morning to each individual glow plug to see if there is much difference. I have a Sealey TA125 current tester so I can de-rate the F02 50a fuse down to say 20a and link each G1-G4 pin in turn to pin 30.+ 12v. I won't need the ignition on so a short test (few secs) should be ok. I can do this from the relay base quite easily, I need to know exactly what is wrong before I have to strip the front of the vehicle off and what ever else to get to the glow plugs.
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Hi
Your current test approach sounds a good one. From memory, each plug draws something like 15 amps when cold which drops down to 10 Amps once it heats up after 5 or 10 seconds. They are nominally rated at 11 volts, but a battery not being charged won't be far different once you allow for a bit of drop in the wiring.
I am assuming here that the plugs haven't been updated by Fiat over the years to a type that needs a lower voltage via some sort of controller.
Your current test approach sounds a good one. From memory, each plug draws something like 15 amps when cold which drops down to 10 Amps once it heats up after 5 or 10 seconds. They are nominally rated at 11 volts, but a battery not being charged won't be far different once you allow for a bit of drop in the wiring.
I am assuming here that the plugs haven't been updated by Fiat over the years to a type that needs a lower voltage via some sort of controller.
Hi, 12v as far as I can tell, 12v on pin 30 relay from f02, harness colours from relay same as plug on the engine where it splits into 2 pairs to the glow plugs.
Tests done- G1/G3/G4 Resistance Cold 1 ohm. G2 Resistance 0.6 ohm
G1/G3/G4 - Current test 17A down to 13A in about 2 secs
G2 blew my 20a test fuse ( so greater than 20a) as soon as I connected.
Relay Part No. Bosch 0 281 003 171
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Hi
That's pretty conclusive. I had one plug fail short circuit on my 2008 X250 Ducato about 4 years ago. I used a workaround, which involved wiring a 1 Ohm metalclad power resistor (on a heatsink) in place of the faulty plug so that the Relay over current trip doesn't happen and the current self-test "sees" the right current and therefore passes. I never use the vehicle in weather cold enough to need all 4 plugs, and it seems to start just fine with only 3.
The alternative, given the age of the vehicle, would have almost certainly been specialist extraction of the seized plug and a £££ bill with very little benefit to me.
You may find that your plug can be extracted without issue, given that the vehicle is fairly new.
That's pretty conclusive. I had one plug fail short circuit on my 2008 X250 Ducato about 4 years ago. I used a workaround, which involved wiring a 1 Ohm metalclad power resistor (on a heatsink) in place of the faulty plug so that the Relay over current trip doesn't happen and the current self-test "sees" the right current and therefore passes. I never use the vehicle in weather cold enough to need all 4 plugs, and it seems to start just fine with only 3.
The alternative, given the age of the vehicle, would have almost certainly been specialist extraction of the seized plug and a £££ bill with very little benefit to me.
You may find that your plug can be extracted without issue, given that the vehicle is fairly new.
Hi, I agree, That the plug is short circuit, I've left F02 out for the moment. The error code P0683-13 Preheating control unit (feedback) Open circuit.
makes no sense to me if the glow plug is short.
Hi,
Stumbled upon this thread while I was troubleshooting "check glow plugs" error on my Alfa Giulia, 2.2 JTDm. I did all the checks suggested in this post but still no luck isolating the problem.
The relay is BOSCH 0 281 003 065
The error is P0683-00 Glow Plug Unit Error (Invalid Serial Data Received) Active
Wires between relay and ECU tested and ok.
The ST pin measures around 3.5V both when relay is connected but also when it's disconnected.
The DI pin measures 12V also both with relay connected or disconnected.
All fuses checked.
The main line seems to have a slightly less voltage than the battery, but I can't figure out when, looks like sometimes it does sometimes it's the same as battery.
Tried with another battery as well.
Pin 86 gets +12V when the ignition is on.
The relay output was around 2V on all G1, G2, G3 and G4. Bought a replacement relay, used, it's output is around 5V.
The interesting part is that when I measure relay output with open circuit (plugs disconnected), I get around 5V at the output of the relay for about 4-5 seconds and it drops to zero which is expected. But, when I connect at least one plug I get zero volts reading, and zero current (measured current with clamp meter). The plug resistance of all four plugs is 0.2 ohm measured when cold. The outside temperature was around 5 degrees celsius.
What bothers me is, 0.2 ohm for the resistance seems a bit low, but it's the same for all four plugs. The relay output seems ok, but once connected it drops and there is no current into the plugs. The main power is a bit lower which makes no sense.
Stumbled upon this thread while I was troubleshooting "check glow plugs" error on my Alfa Giulia, 2.2 JTDm. I did all the checks suggested in this post but still no luck isolating the problem.
The relay is BOSCH 0 281 003 065
The error is P0683-00 Glow Plug Unit Error (Invalid Serial Data Received) Active
Wires between relay and ECU tested and ok.
The ST pin measures around 3.5V both when relay is connected but also when it's disconnected.
The DI pin measures 12V also both with relay connected or disconnected.
All fuses checked.
The main line seems to have a slightly less voltage than the battery, but I can't figure out when, looks like sometimes it does sometimes it's the same as battery.
Tried with another battery as well.
Pin 86 gets +12V when the ignition is on.
The relay output was around 2V on all G1, G2, G3 and G4. Bought a replacement relay, used, it's output is around 5V.
The interesting part is that when I measure relay output with open circuit (plugs disconnected), I get around 5V at the output of the relay for about 4-5 seconds and it drops to zero which is expected. But, when I connect at least one plug I get zero volts reading, and zero current (measured current with clamp meter). The plug resistance of all four plugs is 0.2 ohm measured when cold. The outside temperature was around 5 degrees celsius.
What bothers me is, 0.2 ohm for the resistance seems a bit low, but it's the same for all four plugs. The relay output seems ok, but once connected it drops and there is no current into the plugs. The main power is a bit lower which makes no sense.
I made some progress in the meantime. The voltage measured at the main hot wire at the relay input is showing around 11.9V while the battery voltage is around 12.3V and that was suspicions from the start. So, when I connect the plug directly to that wire, before relay, it stays completely cold and the measured current is zero. When I connect plug directly to the fuse in the fusebox it gets hot and current starts from 18A when cold and drops to around 10A when hot. Cince the Giulia's plugs nominal voltage is 7V for this experiment I used glow plug from another car which is 11V. The fuse is ok and now I suspect that the problem is either in the wire itself or maybe at connection terminals. To check that I need to access the fusebox from behind and that requires some work, but unfortunately the weather is now cold and I don't have a garage so I need to wait.
Btw, the resistance of the new 11V glow plug when cold is 0.5Ohm measured at around 22 degrees Celsius, so now I'm thinking that the resistance of 0.2Ohm measured at around 5 degrees Celsius of 7V plug might be ok.
The error didn't go away, when I delete it it returns as active next time I turn the ignition on.
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Hi Pedja
If the Glow Plugs in your 2.2 Alfa are 7 Volt nominal types, they will actually be driven with PULSED battery voltage (11 to 13 Volts). The voltage (and current) go on and off rapidly (32 Hz typical), with this switching performed by a Mosfet switch in the glow plug controller. With a resistance of about 0.4 ohms, during the pulse the current will be about 30 amps and the power will be 360 Watts. With a typical duty cycle of 50% on and 50% off, the AVERAGE power is controlled to about 180 Watts, but this can be altered by the ECU to suit the engines requirements. The RMS (root mean square) voltage to the glow plugs will be about 7 volts, but you may need a specialist meter to read this accurately.
As with all glow plug systems, the total current drain for four plugs is very high, so the main feed to the glow plug controller must have good electrical connections all the way through. I think you are right to be looking in this area, examine every joint and contact.
If the Glow Plugs in your 2.2 Alfa are 7 Volt nominal types, they will actually be driven with PULSED battery voltage (11 to 13 Volts). The voltage (and current) go on and off rapidly (32 Hz typical), with this switching performed by a Mosfet switch in the glow plug controller. With a resistance of about 0.4 ohms, during the pulse the current will be about 30 amps and the power will be 360 Watts. With a typical duty cycle of 50% on and 50% off, the AVERAGE power is controlled to about 180 Watts, but this can be altered by the ECU to suit the engines requirements. The RMS (root mean square) voltage to the glow plugs will be about 7 volts, but you may need a specialist meter to read this accurately.
As with all glow plug systems, the total current drain for four plugs is very high, so the main feed to the glow plug controller must have good electrical connections all the way through. I think you are right to be looking in this area, examine every joint and contact.
Hi Anthony,
Thank you for this detailed explanation. The first time I measured the relay output and saw around 5V DC I suspected that it might not be the actual DC but some impulse signal. Unfortunately I didn't have the oscilloscope to test it. I did measure with multimeter set to AC voltage and readings were less than on DC but that multimeter is not true RMS. I have another one that is supposed to be true RMS so I'll give it a try.
Hope to be able to check the car this week.
I finally fixed the problem. The main hot wire was broken and I couldn't find the actual place because it is somewhere bellow the reservoir that collects atmospheric water and I couldn't remove it since it would require removal of coolant reservoir as well. So, I fixed it by adding a bypass wire. Now everything works well, no error on the dashboard. Measured glow plug current is around 5A when hot. Thanks for help!
