tinymartin
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Hi all, I have a fiat ducato 2.3 140 motorhome 2020 and I was wondering if anyone can tell me where the glowplug relay is and how to test it? Thanks in advance
Technical Glow plug relay location
- Thread starter tinymartin
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Currently reading:
Technical Glow plug relay location
Hi 
On older vans it was a black block mounted around the battery tray
What voltages are you seeing at the plug leads?
On older vans it was a black block mounted around the battery tray
What voltages are you seeing at the plug leads?
tinymartin
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Not tried it yet. I'll check it out soon. Cheers
tinymartin
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Sorry further to that the battery is in the passengers footwear so I imagine it's somewhere by the N/S headlight or airfilter? Correct?
Hi folks, just like to say , I have been looking for the controller/ relay for some time over the summer. Its been a right pain to find. My van details are Fiat ducato 2.3 150 bhp, RHD, multijet 2019, 9000 miles. Its located on the passenger side in the engine bay. Not in an easy obvious place. So remove the headlight, look down past the right hand side of the fuse box and follow the loom which goes right toward / under the metalwork.
Dont follow this method read on to the end please ..........The relay is not visible, but the multipin plug that it connects to is, "just", terrible location if I am honest. Anyway I managed to remove the plug by feeling around and pushing what felt like tabs away from the assembly. The back of the tabs are just visible on the plug if you take a few minutes to study the visible edge of the plug. They are red coloured .
This is the way i will do it , now that i am wiser. To remove the controller , I found it easier to access from the passenger wheel arch. Turn the steering full lock to the right ,so you can get a screwdriver on the 3 screw heads and remove, a plastic 10mm nut also . This will allow you to peel out enough liner and looking upward and forwards you will see the relay. I now know that changing the relay would be a fairly quick job , if you remove the arch liner straight away, then slide the red tab to release the multipin plug. Undo another nut with 10mm socket , a bit awkward but very do able.
Reason for all this is: I have had the "check glow plugs" light flashing after i start up and the van has been previously started. The warning does not come on for the first start up of the day. But subsequently after that it does. No issue with starting during the summer. I was recommended to use and additive to help with DPF cleaning by a motorhome mechanic. It didnt work as he thought , but a cheap option if it does.
FROST THIS WEEK, so i decided to see if my MH would fire up. It started after a longer than usual wind over, i felt it struggled. This is what prompted me to try harder to find the module. I decided to chase the module as the next easiest thing to do, as seeing where the glow plugs are ,is not a very inviting job. i did carry out a resistance check on the glow plugs (cold) as well, everything read fine. To check the resistance on the glow plugs , take the headlight out, carefully ease the multipin plug up toward the headlight area. There is plenty of length in the loom to get good access to the plug. Study the multi pin plug , you should see 4 populated female connections accross the multi pin plug. If you also note , the largest female pin is opposite from the 4 you need to check.
I have ordered a new controller and hopefully this will work for me. Its a bosch unit and I bought off ebay. I look after all my vehicles myself , so I am replacing this part as the most cost effective option. I may have to go to a garage yet, but I am a always keen to learn for myself and save cash when possible. Hope this helps and I haven't caused confusion.
Dont follow this method read on to the end please ..........The relay is not visible, but the multipin plug that it connects to is, "just", terrible location if I am honest. Anyway I managed to remove the plug by feeling around and pushing what felt like tabs away from the assembly. The back of the tabs are just visible on the plug if you take a few minutes to study the visible edge of the plug. They are red coloured .
This is the way i will do it , now that i am wiser. To remove the controller , I found it easier to access from the passenger wheel arch. Turn the steering full lock to the right ,so you can get a screwdriver on the 3 screw heads and remove, a plastic 10mm nut also . This will allow you to peel out enough liner and looking upward and forwards you will see the relay. I now know that changing the relay would be a fairly quick job , if you remove the arch liner straight away, then slide the red tab to release the multipin plug. Undo another nut with 10mm socket , a bit awkward but very do able.
Reason for all this is: I have had the "check glow plugs" light flashing after i start up and the van has been previously started. The warning does not come on for the first start up of the day. But subsequently after that it does. No issue with starting during the summer. I was recommended to use and additive to help with DPF cleaning by a motorhome mechanic. It didnt work as he thought , but a cheap option if it does.
FROST THIS WEEK, so i decided to see if my MH would fire up. It started after a longer than usual wind over, i felt it struggled. This is what prompted me to try harder to find the module. I decided to chase the module as the next easiest thing to do, as seeing where the glow plugs are ,is not a very inviting job. i did carry out a resistance check on the glow plugs (cold) as well, everything read fine. To check the resistance on the glow plugs , take the headlight out, carefully ease the multipin plug up toward the headlight area. There is plenty of length in the loom to get good access to the plug. Study the multi pin plug , you should see 4 populated female connections accross the multi pin plug. If you also note , the largest female pin is opposite from the 4 you need to check.
I have ordered a new controller and hopefully this will work for me. Its a bosch unit and I bought off ebay. I look after all my vehicles myself , so I am replacing this part as the most cost effective option. I may have to go to a garage yet, but I am a always keen to learn for myself and save cash when possible. Hope this helps and I haven't caused confusion.
Thanks Gerry,
If you could post a few photos when you do swap out those Bosch boxes
That would be very helpful,
Cheers,Charlie
If you could post a few photos when you do swap out those Bosch boxes
That would be very helpful,
Cheers,Charlie
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Hi Gerry
Your Glowplug controller sounds the same as the pre-facelift vans like mine. If so, inside it is a high current relay plus some drive electronics. Part of the electronics switches on the relay under the command of the ECU, i.e. it has no built in intelligence or timing, it just does what it is told.
The other part of the electronics monitors the current drawn by each individual glow plug, using four low value sensing resistors which drop a fraction of a volt. If any current is too high or too low, a fault message is sent back to the ECU which will log a fault code. The older units just indicated a fault with any plug, but I believe the more recent ones can pinpoint which plug is faulty. If a fault is detected, the next time you turn on the ignition you get a dashboard warning. There is also a protection effect triggered by excess current which will interrupt the current to all the glow plugs and make cold weather starting problematic. Are you able to read the fault codes ?
The glow plugs should measure about 1 ohm when cold, and each one draws something like 20 Amps initially which then falls away to maybe 10 Amps when they are hot. In the past I had a plug which passed the cold resistance test but drew excessive current when it had heated up, so an ohmmeter check isn't infallible. A garage may have a glow plug tester which will check at the working current level.
The glow plug controller has two +12 volt supplies, a weedy one for the electronics and a high current one for the plugs. The latter has a high current maxi fuse in the engine bay fuse box, so worth checking that this is making good contact. I can't be 100% sure this is the way it's done for the more modern vans, that's up to you to check.
Unfortunately, it's more likely that a glow plug is faulty than the controller, and they are a bit of a pig to get to.
Your Glowplug controller sounds the same as the pre-facelift vans like mine. If so, inside it is a high current relay plus some drive electronics. Part of the electronics switches on the relay under the command of the ECU, i.e. it has no built in intelligence or timing, it just does what it is told.
The other part of the electronics monitors the current drawn by each individual glow plug, using four low value sensing resistors which drop a fraction of a volt. If any current is too high or too low, a fault message is sent back to the ECU which will log a fault code. The older units just indicated a fault with any plug, but I believe the more recent ones can pinpoint which plug is faulty. If a fault is detected, the next time you turn on the ignition you get a dashboard warning. There is also a protection effect triggered by excess current which will interrupt the current to all the glow plugs and make cold weather starting problematic. Are you able to read the fault codes ?
The glow plugs should measure about 1 ohm when cold, and each one draws something like 20 Amps initially which then falls away to maybe 10 Amps when they are hot. In the past I had a plug which passed the cold resistance test but drew excessive current when it had heated up, so an ohmmeter check isn't infallible. A garage may have a glow plug tester which will check at the working current level.
The glow plug controller has two +12 volt supplies, a weedy one for the electronics and a high current one for the plugs. The latter has a high current maxi fuse in the engine bay fuse box, so worth checking that this is making good contact. I can't be 100% sure this is the way it's done for the more modern vans, that's up to you to check.
Unfortunately, it's more likely that a glow plug is faulty than the controller, and they are a bit of a pig to get to.
Will put pics up Charlie. Sometime over the weekend hopefully.
Thanks for the reply Anthony, so i have no fault lights showing as in switched on all the time. Typically when i start the van from cold ,i dont get any lights or message. On startup after the van is warm , after about 45 seconds a message can be read from my dash , saying "check glow plugs" the glow plug light also flashes for about 30 seconds. Then both message and flashing glow plug light cancel. Nothing else comes on. Everything is normal. I plan to check the plug resistance next when it is warm , as it stands all the plugs are 1 ohm or .9 when cold. I am hoping the heat isnt having an effect , but i do have a feeling it might. The relay is worth a try as a starting point.
I dont have a code reader, i was looking at some readers a while ago for cars i have and the mh , i havent made a purchase yet. Do you have one you would recommend for the mh?
Looking at the pins on the relay controller g1 to g4 are the plugs, the large spade is the hi current 12v. after that the remaining pins i dont know which does what. I played about reading resistance accross the pins and tried continuity to see if i could make sense of it. As you say , i believe the ECU is the master and the relay is the worker.
Another obscure thought i have in the back of my mind is if a mouse might have chewed a wire ......... as i found a mouse in my air filter when I changed the filter this year. I guess if i have to dig further and change the plug / plugs , i will have to remove alot off the front of the van . I think the earlier vans you could remove a middle section to access the plugs. I appreciate your help and thoughts with my issue.
Rgds Gerry
Thanks for the reply Anthony, so i have no fault lights showing as in switched on all the time. Typically when i start the van from cold ,i dont get any lights or message. On startup after the van is warm , after about 45 seconds a message can be read from my dash , saying "check glow plugs" the glow plug light also flashes for about 30 seconds. Then both message and flashing glow plug light cancel. Nothing else comes on. Everything is normal. I plan to check the plug resistance next when it is warm , as it stands all the plugs are 1 ohm or .9 when cold. I am hoping the heat isnt having an effect , but i do have a feeling it might. The relay is worth a try as a starting point.
I dont have a code reader, i was looking at some readers a while ago for cars i have and the mh , i havent made a purchase yet. Do you have one you would recommend for the mh?
Looking at the pins on the relay controller g1 to g4 are the plugs, the large spade is the hi current 12v. after that the remaining pins i dont know which does what. I played about reading resistance accross the pins and tried continuity to see if i could make sense of it. As you say , i believe the ECU is the master and the relay is the worker.
Another obscure thought i have in the back of my mind is if a mouse might have chewed a wire ......... as i found a mouse in my air filter when I changed the filter this year. I guess if i have to dig further and change the plug / plugs , i will have to remove alot off the front of the van . I think the earlier vans you could remove a middle section to access the plugs. I appreciate your help and thoughts with my issue.
Rgds Gerry
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Hi again Gerry
Here is a bit more information on the setup used for the X250 Ducato from 2006 to 2014. Unfortunately data for later vans is hard to come by, but let's hope it doesn't differ too much. Bear in mind that modern engines may also turn on the glow plugs at times other than cold start, as part of emissions reduction.
Bosch 0 281 003 039 Glow Plug Controller, mounted behind passenger side headlight (UK RHD)
Pin 1 Engraved G1 Glow A Brown
Pin 2 Engraved G2 Glow B Red
Pin 3 Engraved G3 Glow C Yellow
Pin 4 Engraved G4 Glow D Green
Pin 6 Engraved 86 Blue/Black +12 V Power to logic circuits
Pin 7 Engraved 31 Black Ground
Pin 9 Engraved D1 Whi/Red Fault Report to ECU, High 12V = Fault
Pin 10 Engraved ST Black/Red Command From ECU, Low = Plugs energised
Pin 11 Engraved 30 +12 V Main Power
Pin 6 Power is from F11 15A in under-bonnet Fuse Box B001, from Main Injection Relay T09. This fuse also feeds Lambda Sensor etc.
Pin 11 Main Power is from 50A Fuse F02 in under-bonnet Fuse Box B001, from Battery 150A Maxifuse F70
If there is a spell of warm weather and the glow plugs aren't being used for cold starting, after 5 or 6 engine starts the flashing warning light is extinguished. A code P0683 will remain stored until it is cleared via the OBD port. However, if there is a faulty plug then when colder weather returns the problem will resurface.
Here is a bit more information on the setup used for the X250 Ducato from 2006 to 2014. Unfortunately data for later vans is hard to come by, but let's hope it doesn't differ too much. Bear in mind that modern engines may also turn on the glow plugs at times other than cold start, as part of emissions reduction.
Bosch 0 281 003 039 Glow Plug Controller, mounted behind passenger side headlight (UK RHD)
Pin 1 Engraved G1 Glow A Brown
Pin 2 Engraved G2 Glow B Red
Pin 3 Engraved G3 Glow C Yellow
Pin 4 Engraved G4 Glow D Green
Pin 6 Engraved 86 Blue/Black +12 V Power to logic circuits
Pin 7 Engraved 31 Black Ground
Pin 9 Engraved D1 Whi/Red Fault Report to ECU, High 12V = Fault
Pin 10 Engraved ST Black/Red Command From ECU, Low = Plugs energised
Pin 11 Engraved 30 +12 V Main Power
Pin 6 Power is from F11 15A in under-bonnet Fuse Box B001, from Main Injection Relay T09. This fuse also feeds Lambda Sensor etc.
Pin 11 Main Power is from 50A Fuse F02 in under-bonnet Fuse Box B001, from Battery 150A Maxifuse F70
If there is a spell of warm weather and the glow plugs aren't being used for cold starting, after 5 or 6 engine starts the flashing warning light is extinguished. A code P0683 will remain stored until it is cleared via the OBD port. However, if there is a faulty plug then when colder weather returns the problem will resurface.
Attachments
Hi Anthony,
Awesome information by the way, much appreciated. I am carefully reading and trying to understand what your saying . On the stored code P0683 , it may be stored but not necessarily bring on an Engine management light. In which case i will need to have the code cleared after i replace parts. I am keen to get chasing this again tomorrow and see what progress i make, even if it is a case of going after a faulty glow plug. I hope to get the relay today, i will see if it makes any difference. Thank you for the attachments as well, very helpfull.
Rgds
Gerry
Awesome information by the way, much appreciated. I am carefully reading and trying to understand what your saying . On the stored code P0683 , it may be stored but not necessarily bring on an Engine management light. In which case i will need to have the code cleared after i replace parts. I am keen to get chasing this again tomorrow and see what progress i make, even if it is a case of going after a faulty glow plug. I hope to get the relay today, i will see if it makes any difference. Thank you for the attachments as well, very helpfull.
Rgds
Gerry
theoneandonly
Established member
The favoured one around here is Multiecuscan used with a windows laptop., alternatively Alfaobd on android. An OBD dongle will be needed. Check gendan website or do a search here for more info. These are the only 2 diy priced that deal with Fiat specific stuff.
O.K Guys, a wee update,
The relay arrived this afternoon, quick check of the relevant fuses again. Ran the motor for 20minutes, switched off and started again. No joy as the message came back up "check glow plugs" . I havent got a code reader yet, I dont know if there is a code in the memory , so I havent cleared the code if its hiding in the ECU.
Other things i done were, I re checked the glow plug resistance with the engine hot. Thats not really given me much info, all plugs came back as 0 ohms, i am not convinced all would fail ........? !?
I let the engine run for about an hour and a half, looking to see if it would do a clean DPF cycle which I believe uses the glow plugs during a cycle. I was keeping a close eye on the temp gauge (very boring) anyway it was sat half way between 1/4 and 1/2 sort o speak. Interestingly the gauge suddenly moved fully to half and the engine note changed, the engine fans were now running, this lasted about 15 minutes and the engine note changed again, temp gauge went back between 1/4 and 1/2 as previously. I left it running another half an hour , nothing else varied in that time.
I had read it may be possible to clear a code on some vehicles by switching the ignition on and off 3 times and allowing 3 seconds to pass on each on and each off. I wouldn't think what I am saying here is reliable , that's what i tried as i had nothing to loose. The "check glow plugs" message still appears. The glow plug heater symbol still flashes.
Thats passed my time today ..........having a bit more of a think tonight and looking at the various packages for code readers on the P.C , that Anthony kindly posted here. I dont have good wi fi here , i imagine the packages would blue tooth ?/?
Best rgds Gerry
The relay arrived this afternoon, quick check of the relevant fuses again. Ran the motor for 20minutes, switched off and started again. No joy as the message came back up "check glow plugs" . I havent got a code reader yet, I dont know if there is a code in the memory , so I havent cleared the code if its hiding in the ECU.
Other things i done were, I re checked the glow plug resistance with the engine hot. Thats not really given me much info, all plugs came back as 0 ohms, i am not convinced all would fail ........? !?
I let the engine run for about an hour and a half, looking to see if it would do a clean DPF cycle which I believe uses the glow plugs during a cycle. I was keeping a close eye on the temp gauge (very boring) anyway it was sat half way between 1/4 and 1/2 sort o speak. Interestingly the gauge suddenly moved fully to half and the engine note changed, the engine fans were now running, this lasted about 15 minutes and the engine note changed again, temp gauge went back between 1/4 and 1/2 as previously. I left it running another half an hour , nothing else varied in that time.
I had read it may be possible to clear a code on some vehicles by switching the ignition on and off 3 times and allowing 3 seconds to pass on each on and each off. I wouldn't think what I am saying here is reliable , that's what i tried as i had nothing to loose. The "check glow plugs" message still appears. The glow plug heater symbol still flashes.
Thats passed my time today ..........having a bit more of a think tonight and looking at the various packages for code readers on the P.C , that Anthony kindly posted here. I dont have good wi fi here , i imagine the packages would blue tooth ?/?
Best rgds Gerry
theoneandonly
Established member
For MES i can only reccomend the PC version.
1use a win10 laptop obdsx USB dongle and multiecuscan from Gendan with the yellow adaptor this is the easiest method
www.gendan.co.uk
The alternative is to get a Bluetooth OBD2 dongle and multiecuscan direct from multiecuscan.net
(I also have Alfaobd Android version with a Samsung j6 phone a8 or tabA tablet and a bluetooth dongle.)
The advantage of BT is its wireless and laptop can be placed in a variety of places. The dissadvantace is buying a cheap one is frought with difficulties.
the price for a genuine one will be in the £20 plus region Beware of cheap ones about £10 they have been reported not to work
www.ebay.co.uk
www.ebay.co.uk
1use a win10 laptop obdsx USB dongle and multiecuscan from Gendan with the yellow adaptor this is the easiest method
MultiECUScan CAN-only Diagnostic Bundle for some Fiat and Alfa Romeo cars (Single PC)
MultiECUScan CAN-only Diagnostic Bundle for some Fiat and Alfa Romeo cars (Single PC) - only �99.95 including VAT & UK delivery!www.gendan.co.uk
MultiECUScan USB Diagnostic Package for Fiat / Alfa Romeo / Lancia cars (Single PC)
MultiECUScan USB Diagnostic Package for Fiat / Alfa Romeo / Lancia cars (Single PC) - only £129.95 including VAT & UK delivery!
www.gendan.co.uk
The alternative is to get a Bluetooth OBD2 dongle and multiecuscan direct from multiecuscan.net
(I also have Alfaobd Android version with a Samsung j6 phone a8 or tabA tablet and a bluetooth dongle.)
The advantage of BT is its wireless and laptop can be placed in a variety of places. The dissadvantace is buying a cheap one is frought with difficulties.
the price for a genuine one will be in the £20 plus region Beware of cheap ones about £10 they have been reported not to work
Vgate iCar Pro Bluetooth 4.0 from ebay
Ive used this guy in porthcawl for this and other partsBluetooth 4.0 Vgate iCar Pro BIMMERCODE Coding For BMW IOS Android OBD2 | eBay
VGATE ICAR PRO BLUETOOTH 4.0. The Vgate iCar Pro provides almost any Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) enabled device the hardware needed to read and delete faults from most cars made within the last 20 years.www.ebay.co.uk
Fits Fiat Lancia YELLOW OBD Lead Cable Adaptor 3 CAN For use with MultiECUScan | eBay
Yellow adapter cable for use with MultiEcuScan / FiatEcuScan. This is adapter 3, CAN BUS.www.ebay.co.uk
This post contains affiliate links which may earn a commission at no additional cost to you.
Another wee update, I borrowed a code reader for the moment, and checked for codes. No codes recorded and no pending codes. Tried starting it on another - 4 morning , the glow plugs came on for 10 -15 seconds and it started without any delay. I am a little hesitant to remove the glow plugs as they appeared to be working ......... i will take the van out for a run this weekend and see where its at, on the off chance it might come good.
rgds
Gerry
rgds
Gerry
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Hi Gerry
As you already know, glow plugs take quite a high current. That makes them more than usually sensitive to any bad connection. Sometimes merely removing and replacing a connector is enough to break the tarnish layer and make things come good. Here's hoping it's working now.
As you already know, glow plugs take quite a high current. That makes them more than usually sensitive to any bad connection. Sometimes merely removing and replacing a connector is enough to break the tarnish layer and make things come good. Here's hoping it's working now.
Hi Gerry, I have read your postings and agree with everything you have done, I have exactly the same fault on a 22 140 multijet Ducato.
This is a copy of my post.
Hi, My Eldiss Motorhome on a Ducato Chassis 2022 140 Multijet Euro 6 Engine displays a flashing glow plug light.
A diagnostic scan (Multiecuscan) shows DTC P0683-13 Preheating control unit (feedback) Open circuit.
All I can find at the moment is 3 heater plugs cold resistance of 1 ohm and 1 heater plug at 0.6 ohms.
All those resistances seem within spec but I don't understand why one should be so different.
The van has only done 3000 miles. no problem starting and plenty of power.
I don't think heater plugs come under the warranty.
I got the relay out the same way as you ( the nut should be on the inside crazy design)
Did you find the problem as I don't know if its relay or plugs
If I clear the code it comes straight back Ignition was not cycled so the relay should not of been energised.
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Hi radon
Although a cold resistance check gives some information, it's much more reliable to measure the plugs when hot, i.e. when passing a high current as in normal operation. A decent diesel specialist will have a test machine that can do this. Or buy your own tester, Sealey do the VS212 which is about £40 from Zoro Tools.
Unfortunately, glow plugs are much less reliable than glow plug controllers so be prepared to have the "odd" plug replaced if it turns out to have an internal short. As your vehicle is fairly new, there is a good chance it will come out without a struggle but they are not very "get-atable".
Although a cold resistance check gives some information, it's much more reliable to measure the plugs when hot, i.e. when passing a high current as in normal operation. A decent diesel specialist will have a test machine that can do this. Or buy your own tester, Sealey do the VS212 which is about £40 from Zoro Tools.
Unfortunately, glow plugs are much less reliable than glow plug controllers so be prepared to have the "odd" plug replaced if it turns out to have an internal short. As your vehicle is fairly new, there is a good chance it will come out without a struggle but they are not very "get-atable".
Ok Thanks Anthony, I think it coming to that, as the relay checks out ok on the bench.