Technical Gears getting stuck only when Engine on

[Jaymee1501]

Hello, so when it’s hot weather, my gears get stuck when the engine is on but only on the second half of my journey home
I.e leave work and pick up my daughter, that’s fine but then from picking her up to going home every time, my gears start getting stuck and I have to turn the engine off to either put it into gear whilst off or sometimes it then moves stiffly when back on. This is going into first and reverse as never get the chance really to do the other gears. Typically does it to me everyday but not the mechanics when it was there for two days. I think it’s something to do with turning the engine off for 10 mins though maybe? Can’t take it back for 2 days and have to wait till it does it again but I’ve videoed it if anyone has any idea?
It done it once last summer, not a single issue through winter and now it’s everyday where I’m literally having to turn my engine off to put it into gear. Then after 10 mins of the engine off, it’s as smooth as anything (mostly)
Okay the video won’t upload as too big (only 39 seconds) new to the forum so let me know if I can message it, perhaps? Or if there’s a website I can link it to?

 

[John202020]

Welcome is the car a manual or auto, how old is it and how many miles?

 

[Jaymee1501]

Welcome is the car a manual or auto, how old is it and how many miles?

Hi John, thank you. It’s manual, 2013 and 63,000 miles

 

[Jaymee1501]

Hi John, thank you. It’s manual, 2013 and 63,000 miles

Just to add I’ve had the car since 2017. Only had brake discs and a battery replaced

 

[John202020]

So the gears will select fine with the engine off? Its one of two things the clutch itself and or the operation of it ie. hydraulics
First ( if you have the skills and you learn them with the 500 ) check the clutch hydraulics these are a know weak area, look for leaks, there's a connection under near the wing( follow the pipe ) that can start to leak and check the level

 

[Jaymee1501]

So the gears will select fine with the engine off? Its one of two things the clutch itself and or the operation of it ie. hydraulics
First ( if you have the skills and you learn them with the 500 ) check the clutch hydraulics these are a know weak area, look for leaks, there's a connection under near the wing( follow the pipe ) that can start to leak and check the level

Yeah perfectly fine when they’re off! Okay thank you will get that checked out

 

[bugsymike]

As John 202020 says clutch disengagement if car goes into gear with engine off OK. Does pedal feel firm in travel or sloppy? Strange you say problem has been there for some time, clutch hydraulics usually just get worse. If fluid is leaking I assume clutch master cylinder is filled from brake fluid reservoir like most cars these days, has the level gone down or needed topping up? One thought, a leaking master cylinder drawing air from pedal end on the return stroke would get worse the more it was used, but could "self bleed" when left for a while, as the air bubbles float back up to the reservoir.
I don't claim specific Fiat 500 knowledge, just many years in general motor repair before retirement.
If master cylinder, a guide could be oil moisture in the area above clutch pedal. We have had customers where the pedal rubbers kept falling off due to that!
If not a concentric clutch slave cylinder (i.e. slave inside bell housing) and with engine off, you should be able to see the clutch lever on the top of gearbox working if someone presses the pedal and maybe gauge how much the lever is moving to disengage the clutch. In the past on some vehicles I have been able to carefully use a bar to move the lever to it's full extent and see if clutch disengages easily, it would tell if internal fault or external re cost of repair! I don't know if that is practical on your car.
I have had vehicles where the gearbox has leaked oil onto the clutch plate resulting in a sticky clutch not disengaging full, usually this would be alongside a jerky clutch operation pulling away up a hill.
Finally re hydraulics test, when fault occurs. In neutral gear try steadily pressing the pedal all the way down and up twice, then trying to engage as normal.

 

[Ralf S.]

I think at that mileage the beast will still have the original clutch... and based on the Younger Mrs S's experiences that's probably a typical lifespan for a clutch.

But the hydraulics are the easiest thing to check, since there's not much to them.

It's worth inspecting the operation of the slave cylinder on top of the gearbox, in case it's sticking... and while you/mechanic is doing that, it's worth bleeding the circuit. Down by the slave there's a nipple with a little hex bolt next to it.. undo the hex bolt a little and pump the clutch pedal.. and the fluid will come out of the nipple (so you want a little hose on it to catch it into a container). The reservoir (use DOT4 fluid) is the one up by the bulkhead, facing the driver's seat.

If bleeding it doesn't help (it may improve things for a while) then the problem is likely to be the clutch release bearing jamming.. either within the bearing itself or where it operates against the pressure plate. In either case, your mechanic will have to operate. The "Gearbox off" part is the most expensive part of the job (labour), so whatever they find, get them to fit a new clutch and release bearing (i.e.. a 3 part kit).

A Valeo 3P kit is aboot £95 so don't get ripped off on the parts prices.

If your mechanic is decent/knows you/doesn't rip you off, then I would get a new Slave fitted at the same time, so that it's all new down there and won't bother you again for a very long time. Slaves are about £40 (LUK seems to be the most common decent brand available).


Ralf S.

 

[John202020]

The clutch reservoir is top left of the engine bay you can see it in this picture of our car

 

[bugsymike]

Where the clutch cylinder draws fluid from a brake reservoir the pipe is usually not at the bottom, the reason being so that if clutch cylinder leaks you don't lose your brakes also! Just make sure the new fluid is clean preferably from a sealed can, so nothing contaminates the brake system.
In defence of the motor trade, they have to make a living and have invested thousands of pounds in equipment to do that, so whilst you may be able to obtain a clutch cheaper than they quote, within reason there is a trade and retail price for everything and if you buy a clutch cheap the chances are the garage will tell you to "fit it yourself then!" I remember quoting someone for a clutch job many years ago and the guy saying he could get it done for £*** to which I said I wouldn't open my toolbox for that, as the quality Borg and Beck clutch I would use cost me more than that and I proved it to him. On further investigation he came back to me and I fitted the good quality clutch and he had trouble free motoring. Often tradesmen will tell someone a price to get a job, then when you collect it has, "run into difficulties and the price has gone up" look at HS2 as an example