Technical Gear oil leak from selector shaft

[DaveMcT]

It's possible Fiat changed the roll pin size, but that's just a guess.

Another possibility is the roll pin holes have fretted and worn making the pin loose. You could try a larger pin but if wear is the issue you would have to clean the hole to get the larger one to fit.

 

[judderbar]

It's possible Fiat changed the roll pin size, but that's just a guess.

Another possibility is the roll pin holes have fretted and worn making the pin loose. You could try a larger pin but if wear is the issue you would have to clean the hole to get the larger one to fit.

Thanks. I have changed the roll pin. The old one was 4.17mm compared to the new one at 4.5mm. This time it was tight all the way. :worship:

 

[lukish]

Great thread! I've re-read it a few times, as I need to do this job soon. I have two remaining questions about the parts needed:

1. Where can I buy the roll pin, in case I need to change it? I assume I can simply try and find a new one that fits?

2. Same about the O ring to seal the smaller selector shaft mentioned a few posts up. Part number?

Thank you

 

[koalar]

https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-punto-guides/461989-guide-renewing-gear-shifter-seal.html

 

[hodgy18]

Where you having problems selecting reverse?

I have had my 2009 Panda 1.1 manual for 6 months now and he has given me many thousands of trouble free miles already (if you ignore the broken exhaust hanger and worn drop links) but today I noticed an oil leak which appears to be coming from the gear selector shaft. Research, mainly on here, suggests it is only an 'o' ring on the shaft that has failed. Does anyone have any experience of this and how easy is it to replace? Looks like a lot of dismantling will be required before I can get to the offender and having never touched a gearbox before I don't want to break anything, especially as it is my daily drive.

Thanks

 

[koalar]

Where you having problems selecting reverse?

the oil seal will not effect gear selection.


Cable
adjustment
clutch


are the normal suspects


you can eliminate the clutch if its the dame with the engine off

 

[Cooler King]

Where you having problems selecting reverse?

No issues with changing gear, just the oil leak.

 

[DaveMcT]

Great thread! I've re-read it a few times, as I need to do this job soon. I have two remaining questions about the parts needed:

1. Where can I buy the roll pin, in case I need to change it? I assume I can simply try and find a new one that fits?

2. Same about the O ring to seal the smaller selector shaft mentioned a few posts up. Part number?

Thank you

(Assuming you are in UK) Telephone Shop 4 Parts. They are experts in Fiat spares and this leak is a well known issue. They will supply the correct seal and roll pin for reasonable money.

 

[DTanner]

Ok, so I have just completed this work on my car (replacement of the selector shaft seal). It did not progress that well for me and wanted to post about some of my experiences and advice to others about things I learned that I thought may be useful. Others please jump in and correct me if I say anything unclear or incorrect and I will fix it.

For clarity my car is a 1.2L Fiat Panda Dynamic Eco 2009. However, it is substantially similar for the purposes of this thread so I have added it here.

I had a leak issue that I think was related to the selector shaft seal, the background to my issue is contained in a separate thread, see: My Leak Issue

I found this thread was exceedingly helpful to me so I thought I would add my learnings here rather than to create my own. If like me you crave as much information as possible before you undertake a job then I recommend these additional references that I found very useful:
1) Read the post by @DaveMcT here: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/oil-leak-on-gear-selector-shaft.501058/
2) There is a great guide here that is worth a look: https://www.fiatforum.com/guides/guide-renewing-a-gear-shifter-seal.724/

Ok so I will not cover the whole process here as other references have done this really well. I will focus on providing some additions here that may be useful to others – I made mistakes and it punished me so I thought it best to share. There is a lot of detail in the images so feel free to skip if you are comfortable with the directions of the main posts above.

Here is some additional info on the following steps:
MAKE SURE THE CAR IS IN NEUTRAL (just so it is in a known position that matches the images I provide)

Step 1 - Remove all the parts in the way and give yourself space to work:

I strongly suggest that you make yourself loads of space to work with. I did not do this at the start and it caused me some issues, like: wriggling the selector housing out allowed some debris into the transmission (though it was superficial and cleaned out well); I initially lost the correspondence between the selector housing and the plates that mate to it (more on this in step 2) and it is hard to put the housing back on without touching the silicone seal unless there is space.

So making space - remove as much as you can, like this. Remove the electrical connectors at 1 and the shifter cable end at 2. The shifter cable end at 3 was fine so although disconnected from the selector housing I did not remove it. I cable tied the reverse sensor and clutch slave cylinder out of the way at 4 and generally clipped harnessing out of the way.

Some more images of disassembly:

I found that removing the shifter cable ends was easiest using a spanner (or pair of spanners) to lever the ball joints open. For the upper one I used two spanners to lever it off:

I then removed this shifter cable end as shown. You need to pry up the u-clip (that I sketch in the image as a rough front and side view). There is a lip at the top so pry up under this as shown with the blue arrow. Once this comes out you can tuck the shifter cable end out of the way. It was a little corroded so difficult to move, I used a mini pry bar and it worked well - this made removing and assembling the selector housing an awful lot easier:

For the lower shifter cable end a single spanner worked to pop it off (this one was a lot easier to pry off). I did this from the side (by removing the wheel) but you can just do it from the top (no wheel removal). I did not remove the u-clip I just left this one in place:

I gained more space by removing this electrical connector, gently pry the tab up and it rotate over the top as shown:

Step 2 – Remove the selector housing:

For the housing itself remove these mounting bolts on the selector housing. Note that bolt 1 was awkward to access so I needed a slim profile socket and bolt 2 is different as the earth cable goes on here.

You may be able to just pull the selector housing off when the bolts are removed but I got better control using a mini pry bar like this:

Step 3 – Replacing the seal:

This was not as bad as I expected as there are not many mistakes you can make, mostly the parts can only be assembled one way. As shown below the shaft being removed is tapered so the components can only fit in one way (as the components on one side need to be wider than on the other). The key thing to look out for is indicted by the blue lines: when the roll pin is inserted the axis at the end (that the shifter cable ends fit to) needs to be the right way around (it can be fitter 180 degrees out, as far as I know).
Also in the picture I show the where the circlip hides, this must be removed to release the shaft (it is under the yellow/green plastic component that does not have the flanges).

The circlip is fiddly to access but did not require much force to remove and to reinsert I held the spring back and pushed it back in with a bike spanner:

The seal itself has lots of metal in its structure and you want to avoid damaging the sealing surfaces so be careful, I pried it out with a needle-nose plyers but it was tough:

Step 4 – Replace the selector housing:

Replacing the housing is considerably easier if there is access. I played with dry fitting the housing a couple of times to ensure I could place it reliably without the new RTV seal touching anything, then I applied the seal, used the bolts hole to estimate alignment and lowered the housing into place. Once in place the gently lower in the bolts and tightened by hand. All seemed ok as the housing moved very little so initial alignment was good.
If the seal touches anything take it back out and reapply it (my silicone tube has enough to produce 5-6 seals of this size) - so don't take a risk.
Note the red lines I have added show the alignment needed (I started with the car in neutral).

The plates that match this configuration look like this, note the four plates that have a gap all the way down the middle (red markings) - again I started with the car in neutral:

With both sides aligned like this they went together correctly and worked for me.

Mistakes – Avoid my two mistakes:

• Mating parts not in expected alignment:

MAKE SURE THE CAR IS IN NEUTRAL (so the images in this thread match those that you need to match)
In my first attempt to do this the car was in 1st and I did not realise that one of the components moved when I took it out. This is indicated by the red arrow below. As I did not make enough space to take the housing out first time I articulated the end of the selector shaft to get it around the shifter cable end and then articulated it back again when it was out. However the indicated part moved as well, without me realising it was in a different position.

From Neutral gear position the correct alignments for each side are:

and

(Note: as my first attempt was wrong I was able to lift the left front wheel and move the one of the four plates into the correct "neutral" position by hand. The image below shows the correct neutral position)

• Breaking the clutch slave cylinder:

As my first attempt was bad (the alignment of the components on the two sides of the housing were wrong) I had to play with the plates to get it to fit back on. Hence, I was worried about whether I had assembled the housing correctly "BIG MISTAKE INCOMING" so I decided to sit in the car and move the gear lever to check. It did not move well so I pushed the clutch and the clutch slave cylinder (which was still hanging loose) disassembled itself (see image below).
If you follow the correct alignments above this will not be an issue, if you want to try the gear shifter DO NOT PRESS THE CLUTCH!

Parts and Tools Used:

I found the following parts worked really well (REMEMBER I DRIVE A FIAT PANDA):

1. Roll Pins: I replaced this as the one I extracted came out in two parts (this happened others too). I bought the following part: roll pin. In case the link goes dead it was: 4mm diameter roll pin that was 22mm long (matching the original one I extracted), I got one in Stainless Steel in case corrosion might be an issue.
   Image of Roll Pins

   . The old roll pin is sitting on top of the bag of new ones (in two pieces):

   
2. Shaft seal - I bought the following part: Selector Shaft Seal. In case the link goes dead it was: FIAT PANDA SELECTOR SHAFT SEAL GENUINE (55250937)
3. Mini pry bar set [optional but useful] - I bought the following parts: Pry Bar Set. In case the link goes dead it was: Amazon Basics Pry Bar/Nail Puller 4 Piece Set, Black
4. Silicone Seal - I bought the following part: Silicone Sealant. In case the link goes dead it was: V-Tech VT-153 Quality Copper RTV Silicone Instant High Temperature Gasket Maker
5. Transmission Oil - I bought the following part: Transmission Oil. In case the link goes dead it was: Febi Bilstein 75w-80 Gearbox Oil GL-5 | 40580

Well that is about it. Thanks for the help with this. If there are any mistakes here or corrections please let me know.

EDIT: Swap ISPOILER for SPOILER to get sections to collapse more neatly and added my car details.

 

[DaveMcT]

The easy mistake is to put the nylon bushes the wrong way around or ping a spring into the garden weeds.I used small zip ties to close up the springs on disassembly. Cut them and remove when the shaft is back in place. When happy, fit the roll pin. Be VERY careful to correctly set the shifter shaft. If you get it 180 degs out of phase, the (now bent) roll pin will be a nightmare to remove. DAMHIK.