Technical Fiat quality never fails to impress
- Thread starter vexorg
- Start date
Currently reading:
Technical Fiat quality never fails to impress
Because they're fashionable. The 500 sells (and has strong residuals) because of its looks and kerb appeal, not because of its quality, maintainability or cost of ownership.
IMO the 500 is a car best bought new and traded away before the warranty runs out. My advice to anyone wanting a cheap econmical runabout with minimal issues and maintenance costs is to look elsewhere.
They're popular so hold their value so expensive, the car is built down to a price so lots of parts don't last as long as you'd expect however due the the need to replace "many"parts, I've found most are relatively cheap?
The common wearing parts are cheap enough (though the dealer only items are a different story). What kills it for most folks are the labour costs (us DIY types are only a small percentage of 500 owners).
Being able to maintain the car yourself gives you a big advantage if you're trying to run a used 500 on a budget, though objectively you'd likely do far better to put the same money into a Panda; easier to maintain and with fewer inherent weaknesses.
Last edited:
Perishing rubber...7 years seems the norm
What manufacture date is on the part?
What manufacture date is on the part?
My 169 panda had 'geometry issues' around 7 years old.. it turned out the big mount rubbers at the back of the front wishbones were collapsing..
a wheel brace on a front wheel could make it 'bob around' in the wheelarch..!!
Ebay wishbones replaced it.. see the GUIDES.. ok for the next 8 years
Rear dampers lasted at least 10
My 2012 PUNTO Still seems ok
Just 1 x DRL bulb in 67,000 and 9.5 years
a wheel brace on a front wheel could make it 'bob around' in the wheelarch..!!
Ebay wishbones replaced it.. see the GUIDES.. ok for the next 8 years
Rear dampers lasted at least 10
My 2012 PUNTO Still seems ok
Just 1 x DRL bulb in 67,000 and 9.5 years
My 169 is still running on all its original suspension after 12yrs/105k and has just passed an MOT, though one of the droplinks will need replacing soon. It's easily the 100k+ car with the fewest replaced components I've ever owned. By comparison, my 500 has been the least reliable and most problematic new car I've had.
One issue with the 500 is that some jobs need more dismantling than the 169 (think bumper off for wishbone change, for example). Given the state of many of the fastenings on older Fiats, this can turn what should have been a straightforward job into an epic. There's a current thread running on this just now.
Last edited:
TBH.. having recently joined '500 ownership'
sticking wide alloys on a chassis built for a shopping car running on 155/13's was always going to stress things..
On dropping it at my local indy for a service and check over.. (all good: no issues)
The receptionist commented
' we are always doing front suspension on these'
Ive never noticed a speed hump in Italy..
That may be related..
sticking wide alloys on a chassis built for a shopping car running on 155/13's was always going to stress things..
On dropping it at my local indy for a service and check over.. (all good: no issues)
The receptionist commented
' we are always doing front suspension on these'
Ive never noticed a speed hump in Italy..
That may be related..
OP
OP
vexorg
Prominent member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2021
- Messages
- 1,846
- Points
- 570
As long as the offset it right, what do you think that stresses?
OP
OP
vexorg
Prominent member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2021
- Messages
- 1,846
- Points
- 570
That's why is so odd, you'd think they'd be the same car underneath, and I heard good things about panda, and asumed the 500 was the same car different bodyshell.
There's several factors working against the larger wheels. For a start, they're heavier, so there's that much more unsprung mass pounding all the joints in the suspension. And it's not just the mass; the rolling inertia will be considerably greater, so the gyroscopic effect is putting extra stress on all the steering parts every time you corner. Plus, even slightly uneven tyre wear will soon put the wheels out of dynamic balance, and that effect is greater with wider tyres.
And basically it is; but the little differences all seem to work against it. Things like broken hatch wiring, door handles which come off in your hand, door mirrors which break off if folded regularly - all these are practically unheard of on the Panda 169. Things on the Panda which are easy to change need more dismantling on the 500; for example, the bumper has to come off to remove the wishbones. And once you go higher spec, the climate control has a nasty fault which requires most of the interior forward of the driver's seat to come out (admittedly this fault exists on Pandas with climate, but there are far fewer Pandas so equipped). The 500 seems to run into far more electrical issues than the Panda, particularly the speedo and MFD, which regularly give problems - this is unheard of on the 169. Lighting problems are more commonly reported also.
Most 169's used the non-VVT engine (only the very last of the production run got the 69HP unit), and contrary to what the figures would have you believe, the 60HP non-VVT version produces more power and torque below 3500 rpm, where it matters most. In the opinion of several of the regulars here, the 60HP 1.2 in the Panda is the better engine; it was never used in the 500.
Last edited:
OP
OP
vexorg
Prominent member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2021
- Messages
- 1,846
- Points
- 570
I'm not sure I agree with all that, the pounding should be in the direction of the shock and spring, they are designed for that, the other joints, like wishbones should only have lateral forces, and it;s the wheel pulling the car, and unless the skinny small tyres are slipping,then they'll have the same force on them of pulling the car along.
Any gyroscopic effects will be negligable, and only impact the rack and track rod end, oddly they dont seem to have much issue.
I beg to differ. Fiat quality is equivalent or even better than the quality of the german cars. Let's remember we're talking about cars that are 2007+ like over 10 years old now. Also keep in mind that many Fiats are driven short trips which put an extra strain on the car parts. Drive over a pothole and repeat that a few times.
Let's remember we're talking about cars that are 2007+ like over 10 years old now. Also keep in mind that many Fiats are driven short trips which put an extra strain on the car parts. Drive over a pothole and repeat that a few times.
OP
OP
vexorg
Prominent member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2021
- Messages
- 1,846
- Points
- 570
Well, ours was just under 5 years, and 30k miles when bought, so I was expecting 5 years or 50k miles before needing anything other than usua; car stuff. I've owned a lot of old cars, and the 500 is by far worse than most of them.
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
I am sure these bushes could be obtained from a specialist supplier. My 2014 Panda at 37,000 miles have just started clonking so maybe Ill find out. If I find bushes I shall buy half a dozen sets and put the extras up at cost on here. Renaul are another similar cost band make and I have had dampers last 100,000 miles on them and still found to be perfectly serviceable on replacement. The quality is however well above the integrity and honesty of Fiat!
However your car had done only 6000 miles a year, which means mostly city driving. City driving is double or even triple (or more) the wear on the components than driving longer distances. Old granny driver could probably make it last forever though.
So triple the mileage and see that probably a car equivalent of 90k miles of wear with same repairs wouldn't be so bad after all. Cars don't last forever, they age even when they're not driven that much. Soon you're going to have to replace the clutch too. I don't like having to repair the car either.
Lots of people have the mentality that Fiats don't need to be repaired and any repair is too much.
OP
OP
vexorg
Prominent member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2021
- Messages
- 1,846
- Points
- 570
Wear, yes, though your figures are somewhat exaggerated, I've had many older higher mile cars that didn't have these types of issues
I do like fixing cars, though we got this one because it was newer and lower mileage than the corsa c it replaced. At three times the age, and three times the miles, the corsa was less trouble to keep on the road, you dont mind changing parts when you think "that's lasted well"I don't like having to repair the car either.
Seeing as the Panda and 500 are very closely related and must use the same spec' (if not actually identical) parts... there seems to be a bit of an unfair "downer" on the 500. If the Panda is bullet-proof, then the 500 should be too.
The parts themselves don't know that they're fitted to a 500, and therefore "must" go wrong,... but I dunno how some cars wear stuff out in 2 years and others, like the Younger Mrs S's Rasputin, seem to go forever on the factory parts. Just new front wishbones and a clutch slave cylinder for the 2013 beast, in 67,000 miles and despite an interesting (previous owners) life.
What's making people break them?
Ralf S.
The parts themselves don't know that they're fitted to a 500, and therefore "must" go wrong,... but I dunno how some cars wear stuff out in 2 years and others, like the Younger Mrs S's Rasputin, seem to go forever on the factory parts. Just new front wishbones and a clutch slave cylinder for the 2013 beast, in 67,000 miles and despite an interesting (previous owners) life.
What's making people break them?
Ralf S.
Maybe the "type" of driver Panda generally the silver hair brigade 500 often newly passed drivers and the type of driving-to the shops or bowling and back or round town off to friends work etc?
Similar threads
