Technical Fiat Panda Clutch Woes

[eddyweird]

Hi all, looking for some guidance and advice please.
This has only just happened with no prior symptoms or warning.
Driving up to park outside the house dipped the clutch to reverse park and thought that didnt feel right.
The clutch felt like it didn't fully depress and a bit woolly, it then became difficult to select reverse but did go in.
Parked up, but now with the engine running when I depress the clutch it will not go into any gears, with the engine off gear selection appears fine.
Did manage a quick nose under the bonnet before it got dark, clutch slave cyclinder does nove back and fore when then the clutch pedal is pressed, I dont know if its enough? and I had a quick look at the oil level and if anything is leaking but nothing obvious.
I dont know if this can be model/year specific but just in case its a 2011 active.
Any advice appreciated.

 

[koalar]

Had the pedal snapped ?

Wobbly Clutch Pedal | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

The clutch pedal on my 2010 petrol panda just seems to have gone all wobbly. By that I mean it moves from left to right by around two inches. I have just had a look under the dash but cannot see anything obviously wrong. It feels as if either a weld has given up the ghost (unlikely) or a clip...

www.fiatforum.com

 

[eddyweird]

Had the pedal snapped ?

Good point, I don't know.
And now its dark and lashing it down.
Is it just a case of lying in the footwell with a torch to check?

 

[koalar]

Posted a link of an example

It's fairly common, not massive numbers but at least a couple a year, so a first easy check

Not that easy to spot, you need a torch and look where the weld is

 

[eddyweird]

Sorry just saw the attachment will go outside and check. The peddle doesn't wobble like in the original posting, but didn't see the weld.
Filthy night here Koalar socks are now soaked, Mrs B has offered me her car, will let you know tomorrow.

 

[koalar]

Does the clutch seem easier to push down than normal (air in the system)

Or harder than normal (restrictions in pipe)

 

[eddyweird]

Difficult one to answer that Koalar, I've always found the clutch light so if it is easier to press then not that I can notice. Defo not harder.
If I had to say what's the different, and this maybe me looking for something. is that it feels like nothing is happening till the pedal is half pressed.

 

[eddyweird]

I'm no auto expect but I find it odd that it just happebed like that, almost immendiately. Like you suggested something snapped rather than worn.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Sounds like a sticking master cylinder piston may be part of this? My clutch master did this then stuckmthe pedal on the floor. Good news is its an easy fix in terms of time.

 

[eddyweird]

Sounds like a sticking master cylinder piston may be part of this? My clutch master did this then stuckmthe pedal on the floor. Good news is its an easy fix in terms of time.

Thanks Nut. Like I said any advice welcomed.
I'm no expert and only ever clutch problems I've ever encountered were slipping from a worn clutch and a stuck clutch plate and both were different symptoms.
Will check this tomorrow, but I cant remember its trying to grind in either when the engine was running.
Odd? maybe over thinking things?

 

[The Panda Nut]

Thanks Nut. Like I said any advice welcomed.
I'm no expert and only ever clutch problems I've ever encountered were slipping from a worn clutch and a stuck clutch plate and both were different symptoms.
Will check this tomorrow, but I cant remember its trying to grind in either when the engine was running.
Odd? maybe over thinking things?

My problem was with a nearly new Panda 4x4 but I have experienced it with a brand new master on a MK3 as well. If the cylinder sticks you will get no feel till the pdeal push rod gets it part way down. You may be able to get a temp fix by lubricating up under the dust cover, but horrid to get to. Changing master cylinder is half an hour tops. My daughter diod it under my direction with no previous experience. Sticking slave cylinder may also be involved but this more likely to be accompanied by clutch slip I feel.

 

[eddyweird]

Thanks trying to narrow it Nut.
This is why this forum is so helpful/useful/informative, okay a bloody damn right god send.
We all look to google for help but inevitably the responsive will be a new clutch, new gearbox or rear a wheel bearing needs replacing.

 

[eddyweird]

Okay a bit of an update on the woes from yesterday, going through the things mentioned.
I've had a look at the clutch pedal and all looks fine when I press it there is little lateral movement. I can just see the weld and all looks intact.
Pedal position at rest is slightly higher than the brake pedal.
Checking the pedal I did notice a tiny drop of fluid on the rubber boot of the master cylinder.
Pumping the clutch pedal makes no difference.
My assumption with a faulty master cylinder is that there will not be not enough pressure from the master to push the slave rod out far enough to disengage the clutch?
I couldn't get a tape/ruler on the slave but took 2 photos of the slave clutch pedal up and down, does the stroke distance look about right?

 

[The Panda Nut]

Okay a bit of an update on the woes from yesterday, going through the things mentioned.
I've had a look at the clutch pedal and all looks fine when I press it there is little lateral movement. I can just see the weld and all looks intact.
Pedal position at rest is slightly higher than the brake pedal.
Checking the pedal I did notice a tiny drop of fluid on the rubber boot of the master cylinder.
Pumping the clutch pedal makes no difference.
My assumption with a faulty master cylinder is that there will not be not enough pressure from the master to push the slave rod out far enough to disengage the clutch?
I couldn't get a tape/ruler on the slave but took 2 photos of the slave clutch pedal up and down, does the stroke distance look about right?

View attachment 455911View attachment 455912

You are right. But the master piston is known to stick. Your first action must be to bleed the clutch slave. Then check you have movement at the slave pushrod. Much will be revealed. Hydraulics are a pain but clutches seem less so.

 

[eddyweird]

Ahhhh okay great, so a stuck piston doesnt push enough oil to the slave?
So I'm clear in my mind PN, bleeding the slave will remove air created by the stuck piston or allow oil to move somewhere?
Check movement at the slave has increased from what is there now?

 

[koalar]

If the piston sticking the pedal stays down

 

[eddyweird]

Good point, as the master cylinder rod is connented to the pedal it would adopt the piston position?

 

[koalar]

I was under the impression the slave wasn't moving

Looks like it is in photos

Here's mine working clutch

They don't move as much as you'd imagine

Looks 15mm in the video, 17mm rings a bell but can't find a post where I measuring more accurately than in the video

 

[eddyweird]

Thanks Kolalar. will try again with a rule tomorrow, weather has turned nasty here again.
Maybe my earlier poor spelling confused you about the slave.

Checked the oil level again and definately havent lost any from the reservoir.

 

[koalar]

Thanks Kolalar. will try again with a rule tomorrow, weather has turned nasty here again.
Maybe my earlier poor spelling confused you about the slave.

Checked the oil level again and definately havent lost any from the reservoir.

No idea how I messed up

If the slave is moving roughly the correct amount we need to go down a different path

Trapped carpet is fairly common and easy visual check