If S&S doesn't work then all that happens is that your car drives like it always has
Technical Fiat 500 Start Stop System
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Technical Fiat 500 Start Stop System
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Course they are...
Shall I let you into a secret: I serviced my 2011 500 today. Yep, I could do everything I needed. I had access to manufacturers documentation thanks to EU block exemption legislation, and have access to manufacturer equivalent diagnostics equipment due to the same.
I did a better, more careful job than the dealership, using genuine parts, at a lower price. And the world didn't stop turning.
Your argument makes no sense, in reality. Technology moves on. In 1959, the Austin Se7en (Mini) and Morris Mini-Minor was the *absolute* state of the art in terms of packaging and design. People hated working on them, dealerships were suspicious of them, and the man on the street didn't really 'see' the point until a few celebrities were seen in them. Of course, after a couple of years, they took off in a big way. Once John Cooper got involved, the rest was history.
The Morris Minor. In 1948 it was considered daring to the extreme. How could such a car have such small wheels, rack and pinion steering and hold the road so well? And again, designed by that Issi-whatever his name (I paraphrase William Morris there).
My point is - you think of dear old cars now with rose tinted glasses, but at some point, they were state of the art.
Shall I let you into a secret: I serviced my 2011 500 today. Yep, I could do everything I needed. I had access to manufacturers documentation thanks to EU block exemption legislation, and have access to manufacturer equivalent diagnostics equipment due to the same.
I did a better, more careful job than the dealership, using genuine parts, at a lower price. And the world didn't stop turning.
Your argument makes no sense, in reality. Technology moves on. In 1959, the Austin Se7en (Mini) and Morris Mini-Minor was the *absolute* state of the art in terms of packaging and design. People hated working on them, dealerships were suspicious of them, and the man on the street didn't really 'see' the point until a few celebrities were seen in them. Of course, after a couple of years, they took off in a big way. Once John Cooper got involved, the rest was history.
The Morris Minor. In 1948 it was considered daring to the extreme. How could such a car have such small wheels, rack and pinion steering and hold the road so well? And again, designed by that Issi-whatever his name (I paraphrase William Morris there).
My point is - you think of dear old cars now with rose tinted glasses, but at some point, they were state of the art.
As discussed, the reason for SS has rather more to do with Government figures and the perceived additional sales from reduced RFL than sound environmental thinking. How much extra are we paying in the price of a new 500 for the uprated components and additional widgets that make SS work? Offset that against the supposed savings and where, on average, does that leave us?
Until recently I ran a Morris Minor and old-skool Mini City, they were somewhat lacking in any form of technological nannying, and were none the worse for it.
I think everyone should learn to drive in a Moggie.
BJM
all good points - especillay the "minor!,
my neighbour had 1 until recently.. most entertaining when the throttle return spring failed,
it went from 65mph to 95 mph in a quicker time that you'd imagine,
then came the fun of coaxing it to a stop without wrecking things,
they didn't teach that in ANY test
A wee update on my S/S system. It has never really worked since we got the car. Never has really bothered me over the past 18 months. In fact it never works when I am driving, and only occasionally when the wife is behind the wheel. Yesterday we came back from holiday, collected the car from airport car park where it had been sitting for eight days. Drove the 40 odd miles home and it worked every time we stopped. Today we drove into Glasgow and back, it worked flawlessly again. I think it is just taking the **** and will be back to normal when wife goes back to work on Monday.
The Minor and the Mini remained virtually unchanged throughout their production. Admittedly, this had a lot to do with the management of BL in all of its guises, but Issigonis would have nothing to to with unnecessary additions to his cars - not even a radio. When challenged about the Mini's vulnerability in a crash, he simply replied "I don't design my cars to have accidents", by that he meant that the cars were inherently safe and bells-and-whistles weren't needed.
FIAT's gone down the same marketing alley as BMW did with their MINI - they've forgotten the message and worship the creed, if I might borrow a line. The car's basic design and engineering are sound, built as they are around the architecture of a 10-year old floorpan and power train. FIAT shouldn't pander (ouch, stop it!!) towards being state of the art.
We should be grown up enough not to need toys, and mature enough not to want them.
BJM
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And that is 60% of the reason why BMC (and then BL) went bust. Alec Issigonis was a genius, but the fact of the matter is, your view of a car being a utilitarian appliance for carrying people with no thought for comfort, or other practical desires doesn't align with a great number of people.
I forgot to ask, do you actually own a 500?
all good points - especillay the "minor!,
my neighbour had 1 until recently.. most entertaining when the throttle return spring failed,
it went from 65mph to 95 mph in a quicker time that you'd imagine,
then came the fun of coaxing it to a stop without wrecking things,
they didn't teach that in ANY test
95mph??? Mine could barely do 70!!!
Mind you, the only modifications mine had were seat belts and a water temp gauge. Single circuit drum brakes with no servo - the drive home when I bought her was...interesting, shall we say!
BJM
All your own opinion, to which you're entitled
. If I'd wanted a "utilitarian appliance...with no thought for comfort" then I'd have probably just plumped for a Panda. My wife and I love the 500's design, and it's every bit as easy and fun to drive as the Mini. Plus it's a whole lot more comfortable and practical...and very easy to find in Asda's car park:
BJM
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Well then. Fact is, the 500 is, in general, a pretty well designed and well made car. Certainly a LOT better than a Mini in build quality. But yet the nearest modern equivalent. And you chose a good lively colour also..
The perception that a 500 is complicated is a complicated device is completely unfounded.
The thing with start&stop is that if it doesn't work then all that happens is that your car behaves EXACTLY like an old Mini or whatever you used to have. The failsafe for S&S is that it behaves just like every car used to...... how can you complain about that?
I simply do not understand why people are so negative about it! Whenever I've driven a S&S equipped Fiat, which I've driven 3 of, they have all operated perfectly.
The thing with start&stop is that if it doesn't work then all that happens is that your car behaves EXACTLY like an old Mini or whatever you used to have. The failsafe for S&S is that it behaves just like every car used to...... how can you complain about that?
I simply do not understand why people are so negative about it! Whenever I've driven a S&S equipped Fiat, which I've driven 3 of, they have all operated perfectly.
Speaking as an Australian, the rest of the world laughs at the Minor and the Mini only has cuteness value. Tbh I don't even like the original 500, why would I want to drive something that won't even do proper motorway speeds??????
The Mini and the Minor were built to do the task for which they were designed and nothing more.
Start & Stop, and DPF in diesels, seem to me (regardless of marque) to be very cynically designed devices which cost a car's first buyer very dear. As I said earlier, their intended function is to shoe-horn the car into the lowest possible RFL bracket.
I wouldn't have a common-rail diesel car thrown at me, largely because of the woe that a DPF can cause.
BJM
They're both dead easy to maintain, a Minor will keep going pretty much no matter what. Two of the most important models of car ever, on a par with the Model T.
BJM
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To get sales. Why wouldn't a business try and get sales, and therefore turn a profit. As I say, times have changed, cars will *never* be designed in the same was as Issigonis designed ADO15.
I wouldn't have a diesel full stop.
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You have just shown your lack of knowledge, as someone with only very mild Asthma, I am quite happy about DPF's thanks.
If they ever work out time travel, please go back to the past and stay there, cheers.
Gordon Bennett, we've got a right one 'ere...
As someone who suffered bronchial pneumonia as a baby, and lifelong asthma afterwards, I'm also happy about the incorporation of DPFs into diesel cars. There's a cottage industry based around taking them out that needs stamping on.
Now, tell me Maxi - just what is your problem there?
BJM
I have no problem with dpf's
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I'm actually wondering where BJMs argument is here. It's as though you're a critic of the 500 (or any other modern car), yet you actually own one and seem to like it?
So, errr, why don't you sell it and buy a little old Minor or Mini instead?
So, errr, why don't you sell it and buy a little old Minor or Mini instead?
You know, bgunn, it's bad when the mods start siding with the trolls...
I got sick of messing with points and such like at the side of motorways.
The whole point I'm trying to put across is, S&S is a wholly redundant bit of kit for any driver with common sense. If you're stopped in traffic, you stop the engine. Similarly, common sense tells you that, if you keep doing that, you'll screw up the battery.
Those of us *with common sense* keep S&S turned off...and put up with the annoying little amber light.
BJM
The great thing about s&s is that you don't need to turn the key.....
