General Fiat 500 2017 plate 1.2 Petrol - Clutch Fluid

[Davidporthcawl]

Fiat 500 2017, 1.2 petrol
When bleeding the clutch via the bleeding nipple on the clutch slave cylinder should I have the cap on the clutch fluid reservoir on or off while bleeding?

Simple question I know but I don't want to drag yet more air into the system, I realise I have to keep the fluid topped up above minimum level at all times but it feels wrong pumping the clutch pedal with the cap off.

Any advise is appreciated.

Many thanks for sunny wales

Dave

 

[varesecrazy]

Ive done that kind of job with the Cap OFF

For ease of maintaining the level

As long as the level is fairly high.. you wont draw air

My 2018's is filthy.. another job on the list for this summer


Is the clutch action odd??

Mine is ok

Charlie - Abertillery

 

[Davidporthcawl]

Ive done that kind of job with the Cap OFF

For ease of maintaining the level

As long as the level is fairly high.. you wont draw air

My 2018's is filthy.. another job on the list for this summer


Is the clutch action odd??

Mine is ok

Charlie - Abertillery

Hi Charlie

Yes my daughters clutch went very limp with not much resistance and when I looked there was no clutch fluid in the reservoir.

She either has a leak somewhere (maybe the joint of Master / Slave cylinders) so I have bought a new slave to install and one of those aftermarket 8mm joints as i hear the master slave joint is difficult to uncouple.

Or there is the possibility that air has been drawn into the system because she let the fluid level drop to much.

I read that when the clutch is pressed the arm on the gear box should only move around 15mm but looking at videos online the arm seems to move more like 30mm when the clutch is pressed.

On here car the arm on the side of the gear box is only moving about 15mm when clutch is pressed so that's whey i am replacing the slave really.

However, I think having read your reply i will keep the cap off with fluid topped up - cheers

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Just to throw in my ha'penny worth. Yes, I would bleed brakes and clutches with the cap off. shouldn't actually make any difference to the bleeding operation if you leave the cap on as there's an air hole to prevent a vacuum developing but with the cap off it is so much easier to see the level and top up when needed.

As many on the forum will agree, the hydrualics on our clutches are definitely a bit of a weak point and both slave and master cylinders are highly suspect. Our 2010 Panda needed a new slave when it had it's new clutch fitted and our older boy's 2012 Punto had both master and slave done a couple of years ago.

 

[Davidporthcawl]

Just to throw in my ha'penny worth. Yes, I would bleed brakes and clutches with the cap off. shouldn't actually make any difference to the bleeding operation if you leave the cap on as there's an air hole to prevent a vacuum developing but with the cap off it is so much easier to see the level and top up when needed.

As many on the forum will agree, the hydrualics on our clutches are definitely a bit of a weak point and both slave and master cylinders are highly suspect. Our 2010 Panda needed a new slave when it had it's new clutch fitted and our older boy's 2012 Punto had both master and slave done a couple of years ago.

Thanks Jock

It makes me feel better knowing that its a common but fixable problem.

I will indeed bleed with the cap off.

Cheers

 

[DaveMcT]

Both of my 169 Pandas (same engine as 500) have needed new master cylinders due to air getting past the seals. A sticking slave will make it worse but the problem is initially in the master seals. You can get a new master from the usual suppliers for about £60 (or less). Avoid the Fiat spec masters complete with fluid for about 3x the cost. (1) its silly money (2) the pipe connector often wont uncouple (3) its just as quick to keep the original pipes and bleed the new master cylinder.

Get this -

Genuine Borg & Beck Clutch Master Cylinder BCM214 Top Quality 2yrs No Quibb for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Genuine Borg & Beck Clutch Master Cylinder BCM214 Top Quality 2yrs No Quibb at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!

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Not this -

LuK 511030710 Clutch Master Cylinder Fits Fiat 500 500 C Panda Ford Ka | eBay

Manufacturer: LuK. OEM Numbers: 55187040--FIAT,1544174--FORD,9S51-7A543-AA--FORD,9S517A543AA--FORD. Motor World Direct. Nitrox Additives.

www.ebay.co.uk

Other suppliers are available

 

[John202020]

Hi Charlie

Yes my daughters clutch went very limp with not much resistance and when I looked there was no clutch fluid in the reservoir.

She either has a leak somewhere (maybe the joint of Master / Slave cylinders) so I have bought a new slave to install and one of those aftermarket 8mm joints as i hear the master slave joint is difficult to uncouple.

Or there is the possibility that air has been drawn into the system because she let the fluid level drop to much.

I read that when the clutch is pressed the arm on the gear box should only move around 15mm but looking at videos online the arm seems to move more like 30mm when the clutch is pressed.

On here car the arm on the side of the gear box is only moving about 15mm when clutch is pressed so that's whey i am replacing the slave really.

However, I think having read your reply i will keep the cap off with fluid topped up - cheers

Note you can disconnect the pipe at the slave and just replace it?

 

[Davidporthcawl]

Note you can disconnect the pipe at the slave and just replace it?

Now that's a good idea - cheers

 

[Ralf S.]

I usually remove the lid but place it over the reservoir collar, so it's technically "off" but still on, to stop any dust, dirt and airborne seeds/pollen getting blown into the master cylinder. I'm outdoors when I'm tinkering, 99% of the time.

But the inlet to the master cylinder is at the bottom of the reservoir, so it's actually quite difficult to feed air in from the top, unless you're really not paying attention..


Ralf S.

 

[Davidporthcawl]

Both of my 169 Pandas (same engine as 500) have needed new master cylinders due to air getting past the seals. A sticking slave will make it worse but the problem is initially in the master seals. You can get a new master from the usual suppliers for about £60 (or less). Avoid the Fiat spec masters complete with fluid for about 3x the cost. (1) its silly money (2) the pipe connector often wont uncouple (3) its just as quick to keep the original pipes and bleed the new master cylinder.

Get this -

Genuine Borg & Beck Clutch Master Cylinder BCM214 Top Quality 2yrs No Quibb for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Genuine Borg & Beck Clutch Master Cylinder BCM214 Top Quality 2yrs No Quibb at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!

www.ebay.co.uk

Not this -

LuK 511030710 Clutch Master Cylinder Fits Fiat 500 500 C Panda Ford Ka | eBay

Manufacturer: LuK. OEM Numbers: 55187040--FIAT,1544174--FORD,9S51-7A543-AA--FORD,9S517A543AA--FORD. Motor World Direct. Nitrox Additives.

www.ebay.co.uk

Other suppliers are available

Thanks for the part advice, looking at the slave cylinder its pretty easy to replace, is the master cylinder part swap out relatively straight forward too ?

 

[John202020]

Now that's a good idea - cheers

Only works if it's not the quick connection thats leaking ?

 

[DaveMcT]

Only works if it's not the quick connection thats leaking ?

I should have added that the QD connector corrodes internally (stainless springs inside aluminium body). I sliced mine open with a grinder. There was no way it would ever separate, but the inner seals looked good. I got a fully filled master and slave for the 2007 100HP at a very good price so swapped the lot. However running the new pipe is time consuming and the coupling should be wrapped in Denso tape to keep the weather out. Self amalgamating insulation tape is probably neater.

Changing the pipe is not worth the effort. Just swap the cylinders and put any "spare" pipes aside just in case you need them later.

The 2007 1.2 simply had a new cast metal master (Borg & Beck) but kept the original pipes. The coupling must be much the same but there are no signs of any fluid leaks.

 

[Davidporthcawl]

I should have added that the QD connector corrodes internally (stainless springs inside aluminium body). I sliced mine open with a grinder. There was no way it would ever separate, but the inner seals looked good. I got a fully filled master and slave for the 2007 100HP at a very good price so swapped the lot. However running the new pipe is time consuming and the coupling should be wrapped in Denso tape to keep the weather out.

It's not worth the effort. Just swap the cylinders and put any "spare" pipes aside just in case you need them later.

The 2007 1.2 simply had a new cast metal master (Borg & Beck) but kept the original pipes. The coupling must be much the same but there are no signs of any fluid leaks.

Thanks Dave

I am swapping the slave cylinder out tonight, just the cylinder not the pipes, the joint seems dry so i don't think its leaking.

Fingers crossed

Cheers

Dave

 

[Davidporthcawl]

HI everyone

Many thanks for all the advise and tips, slave clutch cylinder replaced and system bleed, all working well.

Only one question, do I need to reinsert the rubber thingy that sits in the clutch fluid reservoir ?

See image below, I have topped up the fluid to max level but when I put this rubber thing into the pot the level is well over max level.

Can I just leave it out and just put the reservoir cap on ?

 

[DaveMcT]

We answered this on your other thread. However, my method is to wrap a cotton cloth under the reservoir and make sure the rubber is not expanded. Fill reservoir to the full line, insert the rubber and screw on the lid. This might "overfill" the reservoir but the rubber gives ample space for expansion. There should be no fluid on top of the rubber.

 

[Ralf S.]

I fill up the cylinder to "MAX" then stick the rubber diaphragm on top. That raises the fluid level but that's how it was when we got the car, I've seen others like it and it hasn't caused me any issues, so I think it's normal.

Ralf S.

 

[jrkitching]

Can I just leave it out and just put the reservoir cap on ?

As we've already said, it's not recommended since the rubber diaphragm helps keep the fluid from absorbing water.

Interestingly I've often seen condensed water droplets on the topside of the diaphragm after unscrewing the cap, so it is definitely serving a useful purpose. If it wasn't there, that water would be in the fluid.

Given that there's plenty of airspace above the diaphragm to deal with any pressure changes, I;d say the less air you've got underneath it, the better.