General Fiat 500 2017 front suspension arm bush

[Davidporthcawl]

Good Morning Everyone

My daughters car (2017 Fiat 500 1.2 petrol, Mirror) has an advisory on the MOT "Offside front suspension arm pin or bush worn but not resulting in excessive movement".

Having read through a number of threads I am assuming this is the bush on the wishbone, one on each side at the front.

The garage (who are decent to be fair) have said that when this bush needs replacing it requires the bumper to be removed to access the bolts is this true ?

They have also said that if you do one side its best to do the other too, which makes sense.

Is this something I can do myself in my driveway or does it affect the tracking etc ?

I would appreciate any advice, many thanks

Dave

 

[realecoworldunreal]

If you have 500 for real and writing in 500L then that's totally different chassis and you should ask in Panda department.
Anyway... Yes, bumper has to be removed in some cases*.
No, doing both sides doesn't make sense, unless you put genuine part there as many aftermarket wishbones won't last that long as original one. So I would not replace working wishbone.

*Offside front: there are 2 bushes and one pin. If the problem is pin, which is connected to Macpherson then easier job as I would replace just that ball joint without taking out wishbone.

 

[The Panda Nut]

It should be a job you can do. On some models the front chassis leg (bolt on front section) has to be removed to get access to one of the bolts. New Panda does and I think the 500 too. If the bumper has to come off that may well be the most time consuming job if the lower fixings are seized up. Strut top nuts need an impact gun and the anti roll bar link rods are much easier with one too, I would change the strut top mount at the same time. As one side will surely follow the other I suggest doing both is best. Check that all the remainder of the suspension is sound and change anything else that is on the way out unless you want to be back in the same place before too long. If all goes OK a morning each side should do it. Give the strut lower fixings a good long soak in penetrating fluid a few times a few days in advance. You will need a re track done after to avoid possible tyre wear from changed geometry.

 

[realecoworldunreal]

You will need a re track done after to avoid possible tyre wear from changed geometry.

Only wheel alignment/tracking required if track rod changed, but only IF replaced with no attention, but not in case of wishobne/strut top mount - just milking money for nothing. Fiat has very simple suspension, in my 500L done track rod end with measuring caliper, without doing wheel alignment after. Good as gold now, after about 7000miles, car goes straight when not holding steering, no side wear to tires. Never booked any track alignment after wishbone replacement/strut top mount, from my point of view there is nothing/no any part of it which could affect tracking re-set. Geometry set is not possible to do, only tracking.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Only wheel alignment/tracking required if track rod changed, but only IF replaced with no attention, but not in case of wishobne/strut top mount - just milking money for nothing. Fiat has very simple suspension, in my 500L done track rod end with measuring caliper, without doing wheel alignment after. Good as gold now, after about 7000miles, car goes straight when not holding steering, no side wear to tires. Never booked any track alignment after wishbone replacement/strut top mount, from my point of view there is nothing/no any part of it which could affect tracking re-set. Geometry set is not possible to do, only tracking.

If the car has worn over time, and the track been reset to compensate I dont agree a retrack is a waste of money. Having done our Panda front end and it having it tracked regularly on the best kit in our county, it needed doing after the front was changed. Tyres being the cost they now are I would do this. If you are lucky enough to be correct and yours didnt need tracking adjustment many places dont chagre much for just a check. I dont disagree that theoretically replacing things shouldnt change geometry other than camber which top mounts subtsantively affect, the combined changes warrant a check in my view. I am constantly suprised by how much tracking changes over time. Maybe just a product of the appalling roads round here. I was walking the dog today and see they have now filled in our worst pot hole. I could have parked the Panda and its trailer in that one! The road surface has now gone from the entre of the road and it gives under foot as you walk along. Balljoints are intergral to the suspension arms.

 

[realecoworldunreal]

If the car has worn over time, and the track been reset to compensate I dont agree a retrack is a waste of money.

I fully agree to this one, and that's why I don't agree to that one there:

You will need a re track done after to avoid possible tyre wear from changed geometry.

As OP don't said that he has problem with tracking, just if this job affect tracking - certainly wishbone or strut top mount not affecting tracking, so if it was OK before, it will be after.

Tyres being the cost they now are

Yes, very expensive recently.

If you are lucky enough to be correct and yours didnt need tracking adjustment many places dont chagre much for just a check.

I'm not lucky, I just do carefully math to make things correct in 80s we had no high specs laser stuff and tracking was done still correct. To check I use two pieces of wood procedure. Obviously nothing wrong with going to garage and doing that way if someone prefer, the outcome is the same. OP sounds like is worried about being ripped off so explained my best.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I fully agree to this one, and that's why I don't agree to that one there:

As OP don't said that he has problem with tracking, just if this job affect tracking - certainly wishbone or strut top mount not affecting tracking, so if it was OK before, it will be after.



Yes, very expensive recently.



I'm not lucky, I just do carefully math to make things correct in 80s we had no high specs laser stuff and tracking was done still correct. To check I use two pieces of wood procedure. Obviously nothing wrong with going to garage and doing that way if someone prefer, the outcome is the same. OP sounds like is worried about being ripped off so explained my best.

I just hate the way the Pandas can wear their tyres. 319's seem better than the 169 (I hope)! Im sure you are right that what we use now is a bit much considering what was used years back. When I started driving tracking hardly ever used to go out, brake discs lasted for years and you could set the car by ear. now its lasers and computers and I am not sure its really any better! We have a lot of fancy gear fro tracking but Im not sure many places know how to use it!

 

[realecoworldunreal]

I just hate the way the Pandas can wear their tyres.

Sadly, that's common, however it can be sorted, especially when:

We have a lot of fancy gear fro tracking but Im not sure many places know how to use it!

Knowledge is the key. "Give me just tools and I'll build a city - or ruin it all."
I had that problem in current Panda 169, bought it with worn inner side of tires, not straight steering etc. Overall I found no point of doing tracking (myself or paid service) IF my tires were worn on inner/outer side because this is still fexi rubber and after doing job it will obviously show up all green on their device after adjustments and car will drive fine but in reality it won't be good for next set of tires - correct, but incorrect, so I think that's why idea is "do your tracking every so year or two" just in case, unless someone knows how to go around and ignore "green" status on machine and do it correctly, unfortunately that's rare to meet specialist like that today. So, to make tracking I do good set of tires first, not necessarily new, but good. This way I'm successful. The key is knowledge --> In most places no one bother about that just they do ordered task. Another gold old rule is the fact when tire started to wear on side then exact tire will keep wearing that way whatever we will do with tracking. I used to pay for tracking in place where some guy was doing it with big fat old monitor screen and very very old tech which lead him to do more things manually. I loved it, ALWAYS perfect. Unfortunately about 10years ago he retired, I tried several random places but it wasn't good enough, it was good, but not as good, so I started to learning myself "how to" and this all proven me that not latest tech is important but knowledge is most important. I never ever had any print out, just my figures on piece of paper but it seems to be accurate if problem solved.

Similar case with wheel balancing: years and years ago by some mechanic who was doing for me wheel balancing he used to say always "do your own bit", so you will drive 200km/h on German motorways without problems. My own bit it was: to remove all small pebbles from thread and to clean inner side of wheel. It may have none sense as on cleaned wheel it will build up quickly, but my point is: we can always revert it by cleaning but we cannot revert anything when job is done with mess. I'm going back in memory for days when time wasn't much important like today, everything was done slower and better, no mobile phones, no internet but it seems car professionals had more knowledge rather than today - who will pay attention today for stuck pebbles in threads? This exact example obviously won't affect any our motorway driving but when planning euro trip for some countries when we can drive 100mph it does makes difference (tested).

 

[rmjbn1]

@Davidporthcawl Firstly, is your car a 500 or 500L?
Parts and procedures may differ considerably between the two models.

I am assuming this is the bush on the wishbone, one on each side at the front.

Correct.

requires the bumper to be removed to access the bolts is this true ?

On the 500, yes that is true. Quite a few threads on the subject, eg: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/front-suspension-arms.483900/

if you do one side its best to do the other too, which makes sense.

I agree. Especially if you need to take the bumper off. The other side might not be far behind it.
If budget makes both difficult, you can do just one side, but not ideal imo.
As a general rule, any suspension component should be replaced in pairs.

Is this something I can do myself in my driveway or does it affect the tracking etc ?

If you can safely get under the car, yes. Control arm / wishbone on the 500 is three bolts. Plus bumper.
After changing any suspension or steering components, I think it's preferable to have tracking checked. But you could just monitor tyre wear and have it adjusted if starting to scrub.

I would replace just that ball joint without taking out wishbone.

If it's a 500, they're usually pressed in, so you'd need ability to remove and press fit a new ball joint.
For most of us, that means replacing the wishbone is easier and cheaper.
I agree if seems like a waste to sling a large lump of metal, but the wishbones are almost consumable items on these cars.

 

[realecoworldunreal]

If it's a 500, they're usually pressed in, so you'd need ability to remove and press fit a new ball joint.
For most of us, that means replacing the wishbone is easier and cheaper.
I agree if seems like a waste to sling a large lump of metal, but the wishbones are almost consumable items on these cars.

Yeah, big press is not handy to keep at home so for minority only, BUT, a way smaller suitcase with tools to remove ball joint is designed and available currently - to work on car without removing wishbone. For me way easier and faster rather than going through bumper and removing whole wishbone (I'm not mechanic). If cheaper? I paid for toolbox about £100 few years back so expensive, but my life expectancy is still long, I hope, so on the end of the day - cheap. But technique is just minor thing.

 

[rmjbn1]

Yeah, big press is not handy to keep at home so for minority only, BUT, a way smaller suitcase with tools to remove ball joint is designed and available currently - to work on car without removing wishbone. For me way easier and faster rather than going through bumper and removing whole wishbone (I'm not mechanic). If cheaper? I paid for toolbox about £100 few years back so expensive, but my life expectancy is still long, I hope, so on the end of the day - cheap. But technique is just minor thing.

I like. Do the arms more than once and it's paid for itself.

My 169 Panda had advisory for one of the rubber bushes, I was considering replacing the bushes in the arms, because that's what I've done on an old car.

But then the ball joint failed so I just replaced the arms instead.

Would be good to know if there's a source for ball joints and rubber bushes.