Technical Fault codes - help! 🙄

[DemonPandaOwner]

Hello again all.
The Demon has been doing ok lately, until yesterday.
After a fast run on dual carriageways, it decided to throw an EML light. It's happened before. Oddly, it tends to be after a run at more than 60 mph for 5 minutes. Not immediately though. Only once you get back to town speeds of 30 mph. And usually on the return journey, though where I work is barely 5 minutes off the a road, so perhaps it doesn't have chance to crop up.
I had to pop to the shops first thing and by the time I got home the abs light and handbrake lights had joined the party. Again this was only around town, so no strain on the engine.
We put the scanner on the obd2 and got the following codes. I've included the photos in case it helps:
Codes:
P0172
U1600
U1602

Our scanner doesn't have fiat listed, but when it scans it picks the engine up as a buick.

Has anyone any ideas what the is going on? I have noticed in and past few days I have occasionally got a tiny zap off the doorframe when I get out. But this was BEFORE the Blackpool illuminations occurred.

Many Thanks
D

 

[koalar]

Ignore the U codes

P0172

Too rich

Confim by looking at the plugs

 

[Mike1alike]

There are too many errors. Looks like a ground problem. Have you check the ground cable, did anything to it?
How is the battery, state of charge, voltage, age?
How is the alternator, voltage when engine is running?

 

[koalar]

Once confirmed by the plugs to here's a few causes or P0172

O2 SENSOR HEATER OPERATION
EVAP PURGE SOLENOID OPERATION
O2 SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT
O2 SENSOR RETURN CIRCUIT
O2 SENSOR
MAP SENSOR
ECT SENSOR
ENGINE MECHANICAL
FUEL FILTER/PRESSURE REGULATOR
POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM)


The simplest first step is to disconnect the EVAP blue pipe, it has a quick connector

Wet your finger and at idle there should be no vacuum felt on the engine side

If there's any vacuum felt the purge solenoid is faulty, you can leave it disconnected and see if the plugs improve


U1600
U1602

Are common glitches and unless they keep popping up can be ignored

 

[DemonPandaOwner]

There are too many errors. Looks like a ground problem. Have you check the ground cable, did anything to it?
How is the battery, state of charge, voltage, age?
How is the alternator, voltage when engine is running?

Of late nothing has been done.
There has been an in off issue for a while where on start up during the colder weather there's been an odd gurgly sound. We bled the coolant system, so not likely to be sir and I only happens during cold / wet weather. Having found the sealant below the rear ligh cluster has failed and allowed water into the boot, I am wondering if the gurgles were actually accumulated water from another failed seal.
I put a dehumidifier in the passenger door pocket (and pretty much forgot about it until today where upon I realised it's almost full!)
It does make me wonder if water has been seeping in and has corroded something.

Due to circumstances, I don't always get much time to work on the car, so I will investigate as and when I can and report back.

 

[DemonPandaOwner]

Once confirmed by the plugs to here's a few causes or P0172

O2 SENSOR HEATER OPERATION
EVAP PURGE SOLENOID OPERATION
O2 SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT
O2 SENSOR RETURN CIRCUIT
O2 SENSOR
MAP SENSOR
ECT SENSOR
ENGINE MECHANICAL
FUEL FILTER/PRESSURE REGULATOR
POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM)


The simplest first step is to disconnect the EVAP blue pipe, it has a quick connector

Wet your finger and at idle there should be no vacuum felt on the engine side

If there's any vacuum felt the purge solenoid is faulty, you can leave it disconnected and see if the plugs improve


U1600
U1602

Are common glitches and unless they keep popping up can be ignored

Thanks for the suggestions. When Dad and I get a moment, I'll run through them and report back with any answers.
The last MOT, and the one previous, mentioned a slight oil leak. They couldn't see where it's coming from, (and neither could we ). There is no obvious drop in the oil levels, so not sure if it's connected or not.
It does seem odd that it's only after going above 60 mph that triggers it. Stay at 55 and you're fine. Perhaps the Demon has decided to implement some kind of speed limiter on me! I don't drive that fast often honest!

On the subject of plugs, in the 14 years we've had the car it's never liked having plugs changed much. Changing them always seems to throw up issues of some kind. So much so that in the past we've put the old ones back and it's run fine. Are there any particularly good ones for these engines? It's a rather picky car. I have to buy E5 fuel because it stutters and judders a lot on E10.

 

[Mike1alike]

Perhaps the Demon has decided to implement some kind of speed limiter on me! I don't drive that fast often honest!

Are there any particularly good ones for these engines?

The NGK ones are usually pretty good.

 

[koalar]

I've had a 1.1 2006
1.2 2005
1.2 2011

If there running right they ain't fussy which plugs or grade of petrol you use

I normally use denso.as they are the cheapest

Plugs are something I don't buy on eBay or the likes as a large percentage are cheap fakes branded

If your plug are black with soot as i suspect they are, it conducts electricity, causes misfires, poor running

 

[koalar]

First job is to check the plugs

Standard plugs are good for 20K miles normally but that's pushing it a bit more

If there sooty

You can ignore the 4 things to do with the O2, well almost, as the O2 is almost certainly reporting correctly

Picture of all 4 plugs is handy diagnostically

 

[koalar]

handbrake light

Iis also the brake fluid light please check ASAP there's enough fluid in there

 

[koalar]

There has been an in off issue for a while where on start up during the colder weather there's been an odd gurgly sound. We bled the coolant system, so not likely to be sir and I only happens during cold / wet weather.

The scuttle isn't filling up with water due to blocked drains (duck bills), they have to be cleaned out fairly regularly unless they been removed

Do it from underneath. The clips holding the plastic trim will snap if you try and remove it

 

[DemonPandaOwner]

handbrake light

Iis also the brake fluid light please check ASAP there's enough fluid in there

Will do first thing in the morning.
I don't think there's a fluid leak though as there weren't any puddles, and when I turned the ignition on to read the codes, the light went off as usual. That's what made me think maybe it's a bad earth somewhere.
Plus the car stops as usual.
But I will check and let you know...

 

[koalar]

Earth for the handbrake switch is on the left chassis rail under the battery

It's only a few millivolts I would expect far bigger loads to fail first if it was faulty such as the wipers, lights and so on

 

[DemonPandaOwner]

handbrake light

Iis also the brake fluid light please check ASAP there's enough fluid in there

Checked first thing and the brake fluid is sitting smack in tbe middle between max and min.
At least that's one thing that's gone right!

 

[DemonPandaOwner]

Once confirmed by the plugs to here's a few causes or P0172

O2 SENSOR HEATER OPERATION
EVAP PURGE SOLENOID OPERATION
O2 SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT
O2 SENSOR RETURN CIRCUIT
O2 SENSOR
MAP SENSOR
ECT SENSOR
ENGINE MECHANICAL
FUEL FILTER/PRESSURE REGULATOR
POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM)


The simplest first step is to disconnect the EVAP blue pipe, it has a quick connector

Wet your finger and at idle there should be no vacuum felt on the engine side

If there's any vacuum felt the purge solenoid is faulty, you can leave it disconnected and see if the plugs improve


U1600
U1602

Are common glitches and unless they keep popping up can be ignored

Apologies for the rather tardy reply. Life gets in tbe way.
Anyway I managed to fit 3 of the 4 plugs out for a quick photo session today.
They look pretty clean to my untrained eye.
I know the rocker cover gasket is weeping again. Never seems to stay sealed for long.
It goes for oil change and mot next week.
Then hopefully fate will grant me the ability to give the poor demon some love.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Plugs look good.
Clean the MAP sensor would be my next job. Remove, spray with carn cleaner, replace. Clean the throttle body while you are there.. Our 169 used toi love playing games but usually over indicated 78mph so at about 71. Cures in teh end by cleaining the MAp and cleaning the inlet manifold which was swimming in oily gunk, Remove the throttle body and inspect / clean if required with clean rag. I fitted a catch can and the problem was cured. The gunk was caught in the catch can and can be easily emptied. THe earth below the battery is subject to weather and prone to corrosion so its worth getting at it and cleaning and greasing to stop recurrence. Backs what Koalar was saying above I feel.

 

[DemonPandaOwner]

Plugs look good.
Clean the MAP sensor would be my next job. Remove, spray with carn cleaner, replace. Clean the throttle body while you are there.. Our 169 used toi love playing games but usually over indicated 78mph so at about 71. Cures in teh end by cleaining the MAp and cleaning the inlet manifold which was swimming in oily gunk, Remove the throttle body and inspect / clean if required with clean rag. I fitted a catch can and the problem was cured. The gunk was caught in the catch can and can be easily emptied. THe earth below the battery is subject to weather and prone to corrosion so its worth getting at it and cleaning and greasing to stop recurrence. Backs what Koalar was saying above I feel.

Think we changed the map sensor last year. Will ask Dad and check. Last MOT mentioned a slight oil leak but after investigating we couldn't see where it was coming from.
I know the oil wasn't changed last year, so is probably 2 yrs+ old. Due to circumstances I decided to let the garage do it this time.
Fingers crossed that and a new gasket might help.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Think we changed the map sensor last year. Will ask Dad and check. Last MOT mentioned a slight oil leak but after investigating we couldn't see where it was coming from.
I know the oil wasn't changed last year, so is probably 2 yrs+ old. Due to circumstances I decided to let the garage do it this time.
Fingers crossed that and a new gasket might help.

in the books they all say change the oil if it misfires. Personally I think its bunkum but its one of the top things on the list. I had new coil pack, new ignition leads new plugs, cleaned thorttle body cleaned the MAP and the manifold and fitted the catch can, It never played up after this so i dont know which or what combination fixed it but one of the above worked for me. LOL

 

[koalar]

We started with a too rich code

We took the plugs out to see if it was in fact running rich

No it's not if anything it's running okay to slightly lean

A ghost rich code could be a few things, it's a process of elimination

If it was my car, my next move would be to swap the pre and post cat O2 sensors over, there identical, its highly unlikely to have to the same fault in both sensors

Depends how long they been in, they can be a little different to undo, without special tools, might as well get the garage to swap them over at the same time

You can look at long/short term fuel trims, O2 pre cat O2 sensor voltage and so on, bit sometimes it's just easier and quicker to eliminate something

It it would be handy to get some base results