Tuning Eventually decided to try a Tuning Box and I'm impressed.

[Shadeyman]

If its the adjustable type, start with a low setting and work your way up slowly. Do a few test runs each time. If you set it too high your car will probabely switch to "safe mode". If it does limp home, and turn the setting on the box down. Your car should rest itself after 30 min or so.

I'm really pleased with the power and torque gains, can't beleive the results I got for £89.

 

[Davren]

EDIT
Why did they change the layout of the common rail, what year did that happen? Obviously some where between 2002 and 2005?

The engine in the Installation Guide is the 16 valve JTD.

 

[Shadeyman]

The engine in the Installation Guide is the 16 valve JTD.

I have a 2002 Stilo and a 2005 Multiwagon.
So the Multiwagon is a 16v(because the pressure sensor is on the end) and the 2002 Stilo is 8v(because the pressure sensor is in the center)?

 

[Davren]

I think the 8 valve is JTD and the 16 valve is MJTD.

Oil filler cap on the left is 8v. Oil filler cap on the right is 16V. (Looking from front of car)

 

[Shadeyman]

I think the 8 valve is JTD and the 16 valve is MJTD.

Oil filler cap on the left is 8v. Oil filler cap on the right is 16V. (Looking from front of car)

So the position of the pressure sensor on the common rail is not an indication of 8v or 16v?

So at some point between 2002(my old Stilo) and 2005(my Multiwagon) Fiat changed the position of the pressure sensor on the common rail?

 

[neonglow]

It's great that you buy all these boxes, even better - power boxes, but have you asked yourselves how they work and how this tiny little box can change fuel injection mapping or timing etc. Well here is one way:
http://cement1000.hit.bg/

this way, the power surge is all in your head, however, there is an even better one using a resistor, which tells the ECU that the engine is still cold and the computer inserts more fuel, but you know that already

The actual chip tunning is a chip, that is inserted in the ECU. It would be very interesting to disassemble one of those "power boxes" and see what's in it

 

[Shadeyman]

It's great that you buy all these boxes, even better - power boxes, but have you asked yourselves how they work and how this tiny little box can change fuel injection mapping or timing etc. Well here is one way:
http://cement1000.hit.bg/

The actual chip tunning is a chip, that is inserted in the ECU. It would be very interesting to disassemble one of those "power boxes" and see what's in it

Here's a photo of the inside of my tuning box.

 

[neonglow]

One thing bothers me still. Someone mentioned these "power boxes" are interchangeble between different Common-Rail engines. How's that possible? Isn't injector timing and injector fuel quantity/capacity specific to each engine? Has someone explained to you, what exactly this powerbox does. I have a LPG injection system and the LPG computer is 50 times bigger than this "power box" and it actually translates the timing from the ECU to the gas injectors. You know how remaping works, it wonders me how these achieve the same results. Still I remain sceptical, if someone could enlighten me about these "power boxes", that would be great Hope this circuit board does something

 

[Shadeyman]

One thing bothers me still. Someone mentioned these "power boxes" are interchangeble between different Common-Rail engines. How's that possible? Isn't injector timing and injector fuel quantity/capacity specific to each engine? Has someone explained to you, what exactly this powerbox does. I have a LPG injection system and the LPG computer is 50 times bigger than this "power box" and it actually translates the timing from the ECU to the gas injectors. You know how remaping works, it wonders me how these achieve the same results. Still I remain sceptical, if someone could enlighten me about these "power boxes", that would be great Hope this circuit board does something

Yes it was explained how these "tuning boxes" work, read my previous posts.

And yes it does do a lot, it works really well, big gains in performance for only £89.

 

[Argonought]

I kinda feel a bit guilty about this as I think I partly persuaded the OP to get one of these (or similar anyway)

I'd read that Angel Tuning offered a multi mapping system which could change maps at the click of a switch (in it's simplest form you could have just 2 maps - one for economy and one for power). I seem to remember the cost started at something like £350 but the strange thing is I can't find any reference to this system at all on their site It struck me at the time as a really great idea as it reflects my driving style (sedate, sensible & economical OR insane :devil

I have to say this device is nothing remotely similar and I'm still very confused as to how it can have any economy benefits.

 

[ben]

They have a little bit about it in the news section:

SELF TUNE MODULE FROM £150

SELF TUNE IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR MANY VEHICLES

Angel Tuning are able to offer the latest technology in programming units, that allow the owner to switch between up to three settings.

With this option, our technicians WILL STILL come to you or you can have your car tuned at one of our centres, the owner is then given instruction on how to use a smart menu driven programming tool to enable them to switch for example between an everyday well tuned car to a track day no holds barred map.

WHAT WE DO NOT RECOMMEND IS THAT YOU BUY A UNIT LIKE THIS IN ORDER TO SWITCH BACK TO STANDARD PRIOR TO TAKING THE CAR IN FOR SERVICE FOR EXAMPLE - THIS IS POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS AND COULD ALSO BE A WASTE OF YOUR MONEY! CALL US AND WE WILL EXPLAIN MORE!

 

[Shadeyman]

I kinda feel a bit guilty about this as I think I partly persuaded the OP to get one of these (or similar anyway)

I'd read that Angel Tuning offered a multi mapping system which could change maps at the click of a switch (in it's simplest form you could have just 2 maps - one for economy and one for power). I seem to remember the cost started at something like £350 but the strange thing is I can't find any reference to this system at all on their site It struck me at the time as a really great idea as it reflects my driving style (sedate, sensible & economical OR insane :devil

I have to say this device is nothing remotely similar and I'm still very confused as to how it can have any economy benefits.

Yes you did and I'm very pleased you did, its great, thanks.

The Tuning Boxes that Angel Tuning are now suppling are from http://www.elitetuning.co.uk
There are more than 3 settings on their new boxes.

I asked Angel Tuning for more info, they emailed me 2 PDF documents, here they are, plus a pic inside of one of the boxes.

A tuning box from Angel Tuning = £160 - £180
A tuning box from Diesel Express = £89 (30 day full refund if your not 100% happy)

They look and do pretty much the same thing as far as I can tell. I know a little about PC's and their components. The components of the Diesel Express box are more modern. The jumpers and plug in chip of the Angel Tuning box or old designs?

If your car is completely standard, no other mods, I highly recommend a Tuning Box.

 

[Argonought]

They have a little bit about it in the news section:

Well spotted Ben although I'm sure I remembered another window opening and also the price was a lot higher.

I'm wondering if it was an idea that simply didn't work, and was therefore withdrawn, with the clue being in "WHAT WE DO NOT RECOMMEND IS THAT YOU BUY A UNIT LIKE THIS IN ORDER TO SWITCH BACK TO STANDARD PRIOR TO TAKING THE CAR IN FOR SERVICE FOR EXAMPLE - THIS IS POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS AND COULD ALSO BE A WASTE OF YOUR MONEY! CALL US AND WE WILL EXPLAIN MORE!" :chin:

Certainly quite a puzzle as the concept they describe doesn't match up with the kit sold by Elite Tuning. Clearly this kit can't possibly remap the ECU but instead provides a sliding scale increase in pressure to the common rail.

It's easy to see how the increase in power comes about but how it could improve economy is beyond me :shrug:

@Shadeyman Thanks for the info

 

[neonglow]

Hi Kev.
This is how a Tuning Box was explained to me cuz I'm a bit dum.

It connects in series between your ECU and your Common Rail pressure sensor. It Digitally talks to your ECU basically telling it that the presure is slightly lower than it really is. The ECU then slightly increases the presure there by increasing the flow of fuel into the engine.

More fuel = more power.

Now I see what you mean That's great, works exactly as the 10 cents resistor you can use to lie the ECU, that the engine is still cold and hence increase fuel flow. So you can't, in any way, expect better milage I hope you won't get any problems with the injectors, cause the rail is designed to withstand much higher pressures than those it operates with, bud sadly, the injectors have a very tight operating limit(capacity). If you put too much fuel, you won't have the air to burn it (in your case the boost) and hoopla your engine goes into safe mode, but the "power box" continues to lie to it and guess what happens I don't know how you pass the emissions test, when you burn more fuel and in some cases have some unburned fuel? The remap is a totally different thing, to make a real good remap you'll need to test your car on a dyno and not just get a ready mapping table. Everything in your car is well calculated, size of turbo, size of the intercooler, injection timing, this is a really cheap trick that could have consequences

 

[Argonought]

I hope you won't get any problems with the injectors, cause the rail is designed to withstand much higher pressures than those it operates with, bud sadly, the injectors have a very tight operating limit(capacity)

Funny enough we did have a case on the Forum of someone who'd installed a gizmo to increase pressure on the common rail (although it may well use a different technique to what's described in this thread).

One of the fuel feed pipes burst leaving him stuck, I believe, in the middle of nowhere

It didn't get much better when he managed to get to a Fiat dealer when they informed him "We don't stock that part because it never goes wrong!"

 

[Oakley28]

Funny enough we did have a case on the Forum of someone who'd installed a gizmo to increase pressure on the common rail (although it may well use a different technique to what's described in this thread).

One of the fuel feed pipes burst leaving him stuck, I believe, in the middle of nowhere

It didn't get much better when he managed to get to a Fiat dealer when they informed him "We don't stock that part because it never goes wrong!"

Bummer. Would be interesting to read if you could dig the thread out.

 

[neonglow]

At least it's not a third generation common rail, the piezoelectric injectors would have been very surprised to receive this extra kick from the "power box".

 

[Shadeyman]

Now I see what you mean That's great, works exactly as the 10 cents resistor you can use to lie the ECU, that the engine is still cold and hence increase fuel flow. So you can't, in any way, expect better milage I hope you won't get any problems with the injectors, cause the rail is designed to withstand much higher pressures than those it operates with, bud sadly, the injectors have a very tight operating limit(capacity). If you put too much fuel, you won't have the air to burn it (in your case the boost) and hoopla your engine goes into safe mode, but the "power box" continues to lie to it and guess what happens I don't know how you pass the emissions test, when you burn more fuel and in some cases have some unburned fuel? The remap is a totally different thing, to make a real good remap you'll need to test your car on a dyno and not just get a ready mapping table. Everything in your car is well calculated, size of turbo, size of the intercooler, injection timing, this is a really cheap trick that could have consequences

Sorry BUD.

Its nothing like the old resistor(anolog) type boxes. The Stilo ECU can only communicate with a digital device.

The common rail and the injectors are more than capable of handling the extra pressure, plus the cars own saftey settings are untouched unlike a remapped ECU.

If you put too much fuel in and the car enters safe mode you have the Tuning Box set to high. Easy solution - reduce the setting.

Many re-mapped cars fail the emissions test and then the re-map has to be scrapped, just wasted £500. Unplug the Tuning Box and the car instantly reverts back to the "Standard" settings and passes the emissions test.

I'm only guessing Bud, do you sell "Re-maps"? :rumour:

 

[neonglow]

Sorry BUD.

Its nothing like the old resistor(anolog) type boxes. The Stilo ECU can only communicate with a digital device.

Uhmm.. what do you mean communicate? It just translates the signal from the sensor and lies the ECU. Simple as that How does the analog temp sensor "communicate" with the ECU, or the ECU has no idea of it?

The common rail and the injectors are more than capable of handling the extra pressure, plus the cars own saftey settings are untouched unlike a remapped ECU.

I'm sorry but they aren't If I dig out the thread from the bulgarian fiat forum, I'll show you what happened to a punto injectors. Consider also, that extra fuel means higher temperatures, depending on how the EGR system works, it could activate and more nitrous oxides enter the cylinder trying to lower the temperature (not the case with JTD, but stull ). The first things you do when tuning a turbo car, is get larger injectors, a new fuel pump with higher capacity and of course a bigger turbo. You do that, because stock injectors can't handle the load. Think also about your turbo, it's safe of course and won't overspin, but more fuel, more boost, more revolutions, higher temperature. I don't say, anything will happen to your car tomorrow, or in 6 months, or maybe in a year, but as i said it's a carefully calculated machine. But don't worry, you won't probably drive it that long

If you put too mjuch fuel in and the car enters safe mode you have the Tuning Box set to high. Easy solution - reduce the setting.

And then clear the errors recorded...

Many re-mapped cars fail the emissions test and then the re-map has to be scrapped, just wasted £500. Unplug the Tuning Box and the car instanly reverts back to the "Standard" settings and passes the emissions test.

I'm only guessing Bud, do you sell "Re-maps"? :rumour:

Do you really know such cars. A remap on a dyno, where fuel mix is optimal throghout the rev range would never fail the emissions test...

Oh, btw, I don't sell remaps

 

[Shadeyman]

Oh, btw, I don't sell remaps

Really ...


I paid £89 and am really pleased with the results.

You don't like them, don't buy them. Stick with your GAS thingy.

If anyone else is interested give http://www.dieselexpress.co.uk a try. :slayer: