Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report
- Thread starter auditt
- Start date
Currently reading:
Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report
bob1969
New member
- Joined
- May 17, 2013
- Messages
- 85
- Points
- 24
It to the left of the throttle body on the 1.2. I didnt need to remove the air cleaner on my Euro 6. There is a multi plug connected to it its the only plug visible. The body of it is held in by 1 torx screw T10 i think. To remove the multi plug pull up the yellow clip then pinch the plug and pull. It should come off. Undo the Torx screw( fiddly with aircon pipe in the way) and the wiggle and pull. It will come out. Spray with contact cleaner at a distance. Mine was soaked in oil. Also spray contacts. Put back is reverse. The car pulls cleanly now. Picture of MAP sensor enclosed.
Hi I've just removed map sensor and given it a good clean as it was covered in oil like yours .What a difference the revs still rise with the clutch but now it pulls away smoothly and no longer bogs down .One very happy wife.Thanks for your help .
We sold our 2014 (14) 1.2 after the hill start problems and the 'fix' did not work. Left v. bad taste in the mouth. Swore I'd never go near a Fiat dealer or Fiat UK again. My missus has longing to be a 500 owner again however. Blame the car's looks which appears to trump everything else. Suffice to say I'm slightly less enamoured !
Am thinking of a post 2015 facelift of 2016 (16) vintage. (1.2 engine again, as twin air too dear and not simple enough) Does anyone, with some confidence, have the ability to say that by this time Fiat had solved the 1.2s EU6 problems for vehicles leaving the factory. Also, had they by then sorted the breaking external door handles issue. ? The other possibility is a 2015 ish Ford Ka as I understand it's not effected by the same hill start problems..................?
Am thinking of a post 2015 facelift of 2016 (16) vintage. (1.2 engine again, as twin air too dear and not simple enough) Does anyone, with some confidence, have the ability to say that by this time Fiat had solved the 1.2s EU6 problems for vehicles leaving the factory. Also, had they by then sorted the breaking external door handles issue. ? The other possibility is a 2015 ish Ford Ka as I understand it's not effected by the same hill start problems..................?
Last edited:
TrevC
Established member
All I can contribute is that I had a 17 plate 1.2 lounge as a courtesy car when my 500X was being serviced in January. That drove perfectly well during the day I had it.
Yesterday my wife bought a 65 plate 1.2 lounge 500c. That also drove fine on the test drive.
I confess I didn't perform any steep hill starts in either.
Curiously, both cars seemed to perform better than the 2010 car I test drove a few years ago and compared with a twinair. My memory may be playing tricks though, and the TA may have made the 1.2 seem slower than it actually was.
Yesterday my wife bought a 65 plate 1.2 lounge 500c. That also drove fine on the test drive.
I confess I didn't perform any steep hill starts in either.
Curiously, both cars seemed to perform better than the 2010 car I test drove a few years ago and compared with a twinair. My memory may be playing tricks though, and the TA may have made the 1.2 seem slower than it actually was.
Yep, as Trev says the chances of anything 65 plate or newer being affected are pretty minimal. A good indicator of this is this thread, if Fiat still hadn't sorted it out then there would continue to be loads of posts about new 1.2 owners having issues.
The beauty of the second hand market is that you can have a proper test drive, so I would try and find some steep roads and be 100% sure you are happy with the car. I am also guessing it will quickly be evident if the car you're testing is a "dud".
TrevC
Established member
If you live in the south east, these have a large selection:
https://www.lyonsfarmcars.co.uk/sea...box=&fuel_type=&seats=-1&price_from=0&price=0
https://www.lyonsfarmcars.co.uk/sea...box=&fuel_type=&seats=-1&price_from=0&price=0
Last edited:
bob1969
New member
- Joined
- May 17, 2013
- Messages
- 85
- Points
- 24
Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report
The annoying clutch revs is still their on our 17 plate 1.2 but it pulls cleanly now. It was a simple fix and i found out with our old 58 plate panda the Map sensor can cause a lot of issues including hesitation,bad starting and bad mpg. I find ours fun to drive but you do have to use revs compared to the panda.
The annoying clutch revs is still their on our 17 plate 1.2 but it pulls cleanly now. It was a simple fix and i found out with our old 58 plate panda the Map sensor can cause a lot of issues including hesitation,bad starting and bad mpg. I find ours fun to drive but you do have to use revs compared to the panda.
Last edited:
The facelifted 500 and a 2018 Panda City Cross with 1.2 engines that I've driven both had the annoying revving when setting the clutch, but otherwise drove ok. They feel pretty gutless once you're past a certain point, especially compared to the older 90's and early 2000s versions of the 1.2, but they're no longer as awful as the 2014 models I've driven, which were pure misery.
I'd still get a TwinAir over the 1.2 every time now, as the TwinAir 85bhp 500 my Parents had for 3 years was an absolute riot & 100% reliable, but if you must get a 1.2 the latest ones since the 500 got the facelift should be bearable.
I'd still get a TwinAir over the 1.2 every time now, as the TwinAir 85bhp 500 my Parents had for 3 years was an absolute riot & 100% reliable, but if you must get a 1.2 the latest ones since the 500 got the facelift should be bearable.
bob1969
New member
- Joined
- May 17, 2013
- Messages
- 85
- Points
- 24
This maybe the solution.
https://superchipsblog.co.uk/2018/0...-improved-throttle-response-for-fiat-500-1-2/
https://superchipsblog.co.uk/2018/0...-improved-throttle-response-for-fiat-500-1-2/
callisr
Member
So to resurrect an old thread, did anyone ever try the 3rd part remap route?
I have a 15 plate 1.2 sport and while it’s not as bad as some of the examples mentioned in this (very long!) thread, it could be better, especially when trying to pull out quickly into traffic where a lot of the time it bogs down when I really want to be accelerating......
Somewhere in the depths of the info
A garage ( fiat.. but tiny..)
on the UKs south coast was basically doing that..
But with a patchy success rate.. as if there were variations within the factory specs
Charlie
That actually makes good sense.
A petrol engine will run within quite a wide tolerance band of fuel/air ratios; but achieving modern day economy and emissions standards means you're most likely rubbing against its weak cut limits. So even a slight variation in mechanical tolerances may mean one particular engine will run acceptably, whereas a near-identical one will not. Even a tiny fraction of a mm in one spark plug gap could make the difference.
Getting reliable smooth running across the whole spectrum of variation in a production run is easy if you can just throw some extra fuel in, but achieving the same result and keeping inside Euro6 emission limits is a different thing entirely. Technically the 1.2 FIRE is an ancient design and IMO runs best and most reliably in Euro 4 form. IIRC the Euro4 engine was last used in the 2010 Panda; the 500 never had it; they used the Euro5 design from launch.
I decided to give an idea to this discussion which might help. I have much bigger model (Linea 1.4) which had similar issues until I learned not to touch the accelerator at all when taking off! So I just release the clutch slowly and the car just starts rolling smoothly. Even on a steep hill with handbrake on it works without touching the accelerator. It got better after performing the throttle body relearn procedure too.
I believe that method might work on other models too. These computerized throttle systems are quite smart and will adapt to light footed driver and someone with a heavy foot finds that it doesn't respond appropriately. Old 90's cars had to be driven like that but these new cars are different. It was surprising that I was abusing the clutch and the ECU was cancelling the accelerator input. Well that's just a thought.
Of course loss of power on 1st and 2nd gear was due to broken manifold studs but surely with fairly new cars it's not the issue.
I believe that method might work on other models too. These computerized throttle systems are quite smart and will adapt to light footed driver and someone with a heavy foot finds that it doesn't respond appropriately. Old 90's cars had to be driven like that but these new cars are different. It was surprising that I was abusing the clutch and the ECU was cancelling the accelerator input. Well that's just a thought.
Of course loss of power on 1st and 2nd gear was due to broken manifold studs but surely with fairly new cars it's not the issue.
An old thread but thought I’d chip in with my experience having recently bought a 2014 Ford KA euro 6 with the same engine and exact same problem. I only wish I had read about this before buying the car as I sure as heck wouldn’t have bought it.
It’s mechanically perfect with only 22k miles but this pulling off from standstill is seriously grating my tits! I’ve had to learn to not touch the throttle until I’ve first released the clutch otherwise it will bog down or the revs will go crazy high. It’s ok for plodding around but when you need quick getaways at busy junctions or roundabouts it’s not nice as you have to tootle off slowly by raising the clutch and then there’s still a slight delay when pressing the throttle before the engine actually reacts.
Anyway, after reading the many reports of similar people and the article written by Superchips, who claim to have fixed the problem with their own remap, I decided to go ahead and have it done by superchips.
I specifically made it clear that this was the same problem affecting many early 2014 euro 6 models of the fiat 500, ford ka & Panda and was assured this would fix the throttle response issue.
Well it hasn’t and speaking to the technician who put the software on, it appears that this map is not the one that superchips did the article about, apparently they went bust in lockdown and brought out by remap kings who use their own maps, and this map was the standard and only map they use for these cars. He said he’s done quite a few of these cars and drivers have been very happy, but it appears that the ones who were happy with the results were the ones driving the older euro 5 software. I didn’t realise this until after he put the map on.
With this map the car doesn’t bog down but is gutless. Using the throttle to pull away is having no or little effect until the revs get high. It won’t even pull up a kerb with the throttle almost to the floor and riding the clutch, something is still controlling the revs preventing any input of the throttle from doing what you actually want it to. I also notice with this map that it doesn’t have the same mid-range torque and needs more gear changes when driving inclines. It seems slightly better at top end when over 4.5k rpm, but as it’s not fixed the throttle response issue and down on power at mid-range I am having this map removed and the original one reinstalled.
I’ve read posts where people have had their car remapped and cured the problem and it’s like driving a completely different car, so there must be something available.
It’s mechanically perfect with only 22k miles but this pulling off from standstill is seriously grating my tits! I’ve had to learn to not touch the throttle until I’ve first released the clutch otherwise it will bog down or the revs will go crazy high. It’s ok for plodding around but when you need quick getaways at busy junctions or roundabouts it’s not nice as you have to tootle off slowly by raising the clutch and then there’s still a slight delay when pressing the throttle before the engine actually reacts.
Anyway, after reading the many reports of similar people and the article written by Superchips, who claim to have fixed the problem with their own remap, I decided to go ahead and have it done by superchips.
I specifically made it clear that this was the same problem affecting many early 2014 euro 6 models of the fiat 500, ford ka & Panda and was assured this would fix the throttle response issue.
Well it hasn’t and speaking to the technician who put the software on, it appears that this map is not the one that superchips did the article about, apparently they went bust in lockdown and brought out by remap kings who use their own maps, and this map was the standard and only map they use for these cars. He said he’s done quite a few of these cars and drivers have been very happy, but it appears that the ones who were happy with the results were the ones driving the older euro 5 software. I didn’t realise this until after he put the map on.
With this map the car doesn’t bog down but is gutless. Using the throttle to pull away is having no or little effect until the revs get high. It won’t even pull up a kerb with the throttle almost to the floor and riding the clutch, something is still controlling the revs preventing any input of the throttle from doing what you actually want it to. I also notice with this map that it doesn’t have the same mid-range torque and needs more gear changes when driving inclines. It seems slightly better at top end when over 4.5k rpm, but as it’s not fixed the throttle response issue and down on power at mid-range I am having this map removed and the original one reinstalled.
I’ve read posts where people have had their car remapped and cured the problem and it’s like driving a completely different car, so there must be something available.
Is the 'sussex garage' quoted early on in here still offer their 'fix'
Its OLD so might predate Euro6 motors.. but I doubt it..
I only got active on here .@ jan 2013
With a Euro5
Its OLD so might predate Euro6 motors.. but I doubt it..
I only got active on here .@ jan 2013
With a Euro5
Interesting, I have a 2015 ford Ka that I have had for around 4 months, as you correctly say you need to pull away on clutch only then with clutch fully up apply power. Not an issue if you not in a hurry but quick roundabouts are interesting. Hill starts are fine with mine. I have used bluefin/superchips in the past for my focus st and just recently they bought back my old handset, I was considering there remap but you have thankfully changed my mind. Cars great in all other ways, real shame about the pull away although I have got used to it. It would be OK if they could just map out the clutch switch.
Clutch switch... theres an idea..
My twinair (punto) actually brings revs up as you bring clutch up
Not sure what the Ka does..?
